Is HIV/AIDS really killing people in South Africa?

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HIV Positive - 13 May 2007 21:00 GMT

<http://www.statssa.gov.za/publications/P0302/P03022006.pdf>:
Population of South Africa (mid-2006): 47,390,900.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_South_Africa>:
Estimated deaths in South Africa in 2006: 599,000.

<http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=6>:
Population of England and Wales (mid-2005): 53,390,300.

<http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloads/theme_health/Dh2_32/DH2_No32_2005.pdf>:
Deaths in England and Wales in 2005: 512,692.

Approximately 1.3% of South Africans died in 2006 and approximately 1%
of the population of England and Wales died in 2005. Given the facts
that the UK is wealthier than South Africa and has a universal free
health care system it's not surprising it has a lower death rate, if
only slightly.

According to the United Nations 320,000 people died from HIV/AIDS in
South Africa in 2006:
<http://data.unaids.org/pub/GlobalReport/2006/2006_GR_ANN1R-T_en.pdf>.
The number of deaths attributed to HIV/AIDS in the whole of the UK
(not only England and Wales) during 2005 was 177, which is virtually
insignificant.

So, if we discount the number of HIV/AIDS deaths in South Africa the
country has an approximate 0.6% death rate - almost half that of
England and Wales.

Hmmm, I'm finding it a bit difficult to believe that if it wasn't for
HIV/AIDS someone in England and Wales would be almost twice as likely
to die each year than someone in South Africa.

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HIV Positive - 14 May 2007 01:10 GMT

I wanted to add a bit more to this article.

For the avoidance of doubt: HIV/AIDS in South Africa is just about as
bad as it gets. Let's look at the United Nation's HIV/AIDS data from
it's 2006 report.

<http://www.unaids.org/en/HIV_data/2006GlobalReport/default.asp>

It estimates there are 38,600,000 people who have HIV worldwide. In
the same report it estimates 5,500,000 of them live in South Africa,
that's 1 in every 7 people who have HIV. It also estimates that 1
person in every 9 in South Africa has HIV. That figure rises to
almost 1 in 5 of the 15 to 49 age group.

Here <http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/ipc/idbsum.pl?cty=SF> the US
government gives us some dire predictions about South Africa's
population decline:

2000 44,066,000
2001 44,296,000
2002 44,434,000
2003 44,482,000
2004 44,448,000
2005 44,344,000
2006 44,188,000
2007 43,998,000
2008 43,786,000
2009 43,562,000
2010 43,333,000
[...]
2020 41,189,000
2030 38,414,000
2040 35,390,000
2050 33,003,000

What do the real figures tell us? The United Nation's 2006 report
gives us a figure of 47,432,000 for South Africa and says population
growth is 0.8%.

And Wikipedia tells us in 2006 there were 12.6 deaths per 1,000 of the
population, but 18.2 births per 1,000 of the population. See:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_South_Africa>.

Are these really signs of a country that's been decimated by HIV/AIDS?

I've provided plenty of references to back up the information I've
provided. And none of them are to, what some would call, 'denialist'
websites. Most links are to government and United Nations
information. Go and check the figures and details for yourself.

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GMCarter - 14 May 2007 11:31 GMT

snip

>I've provided plenty of references to back up the information I've
>provided. And none of them are to, what some would call, 'denialist'
>websites. Most links are to government and United Nations
>information. Go and check the figures and details for yourself.

Presuming the data are accurate, it's your interpretation that is
suspect.

And even more suspect is the inferred conclusion that somehow this
supports your lethal notion that HIV doesn't cause AIDS.

George M. Carter

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rocketscience - 14 May 2007 14:31 GMT

> On Mon, 14 May 2007 01:10:35 +0100, "HIVPositive"
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> George M. Carter

20 years of medical research since 1984 shows that HIV does not kill
immune cells called T cells or CD4 cells.

The amount of the HIV virus present in the blood is so miniscule, it
can only be measured by amplification techniques called PCR.

The man who invented PCR and received a Nobel Prize for his efforts
says HIV does NOT cause AIDS.

The HIV viral load by PCR has does not predict loss of immune cells.
The entire proposition is a mistake.

Important video relating to HIV and AIDS.

http://www.aidsfraudvideo.com

http://aidsmyth.addr.com/enteraidsmyth.htm
http://www.amazon.com/Science-Sold-Out-Really-Cause/dp/1556436424
http://www.amazon.com/Inventing-AIDS-Virus-Peter-Duesberg/dp/0895263998
http://aras.ab.ca/rethinkers.php
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig7/culshaw1.html
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1430/is_n9_v14/ai_12508167
http://www.ourcivilisation.com/aids/chap6.htm
http://www.hiv-aids-factorfraud.com/producer.htm

J Infect Dis 1990,161:833-877 "The probability of transmission of
HIV-1 from male to female during an episode of intercourse has been
examined in seven studies. Analysis of data from North American and
European studies of heterosexual couples provide estimates of per-sex-
act HIV-1 transmission of approximately 1
in 1000 (0.001, ranging from 0.0008 to 0.002)."

ttp://www.retroconference.org/2001/posters/222.pdf

another good video:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yVcxP0wTOCo#

rocketscience

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HIV Positive - 14 May 2007 15:05 GMT

>The HIV viral load by PCR has does not predict loss of immune cells.
>The entire proposition is a mistake.

When I was initially diagnosed HIV+, in 1995, viral load tests were
not available at the clinic I attended. I think I had my first one
done in 1997.

I recall how my 'HIV specialist' was quite excited about this new test
they could offer. And I remember asking specifically if it measured
the amount of HIV in my blood. "Yes" I was told.

Of course now the HIV viral load test is only used to determine how
badly the killer HIV meds are performing. Viral load tests, despite
supposedly measuring HIV, cannot be used to diagnose HIV infection or
monitor the health of patients.

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GMCarter - 14 May 2007 16:12 GMT

snip

>20 years of medical research since 1984 shows that HIV does not kill
>immune cells called T cells or CD4 cells.

LOL...that's bullshit frodlet. HIV does directly kill CD4 cells,
however, it is true that most of the CD4 cells that die aren't
infected. But the proximate cause, as Billi Goldberg used to say, for
that cell destruction is HIV infection.

HIV also infected a variety of antigen presenting cells. Inflammatory
responses at the sites of infection, such as the gut, lymph nodes,
etc., clearly show a severe disruption of local tissue architecture as
disease progresses.

George M. Carter

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HIV Positive - 14 May 2007 18:02 GMT

>snip
>>20 years of medical research since 1984 shows that HIV does not kill
>>immune cells called T cells or CD4 cells.

>LOL...that's bullshit frodlet. HIV does directly kill CD4 cells,
>however, it is true that most of the CD4 cells that die aren't
>infected.

Oh yes, the CD4 suicide theory.

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Death - 17 May 2007 03:04 GMT

"GMCarter" <fiar@verizon.net> wrote in message

> LOL...that's bullshit frodlet. HIV does directly kill CD4 cells,
> however, it is true that most of the CD4 cells that die aren't
> infected.

more of Carters double-speak

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GMCarter - 17 May 2007 10:56 GMT

>"GMCarter" <fiar@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>more of Carters double-speak

You dispute the comment?

Much though you, like that moron Bush, would like to think the world
is all "for us or against us", it's more complicated than that.

Have a pretzel, dear.

George M. Carter

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Death - 17 May 2007 14:52 GMT

"GMCarter" <fiar@verizon.net> wrote in message > >

> >"GMCarter" <fiar@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> >
> You dispute the comment?

It would have been easier to say water is wet except when it isn't.
I did enjoy your CD4 cell death by heart-attack theory though.

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GMCarter - 18 May 2007 10:10 GMT

>"GMCarter" <fiar@verizon.net> wrote in message > >
>> >"GMCarter" <fiar@verizon.net> wrote in message
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>It would have been easier to say water is wet except when it isn't.
>I did enjoy your CD4 cell death by heart-attack theory though.

LOL...no, you didn't understand it in the slightest. You have nothing
to offer except your ugly bigotry.

Wow. What a waste of a precious human life.

George M. Carter

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Death - 18 May 2007 16:21 GMT

"GMCarter" <fiar@verizon.net>

> On Thu, 17 May 2007 08:52:17 -0500, " Death" <Death@yourdoor.net>
> >
> >It would have been easier to say water is wet except when it isn't.
> >I did enjoy your CD4 cell death by heart-attack theory though.

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JOHN - 17 May 2007 11:49 GMT

> According to the United Nations 320,000 people died from HIV/AIDS in
> South Africa in 2006:
> <http://data.unaids.org/pub/GlobalReport/2006/2006_GR_ANN1R-T_en.pdf>.
> The number of deaths attributed to HIV/AIDS in the whole of the UK
> (not only England and Wales) during 2005 was 177, which is virtually
> insignificant.

177, virtually nothing

why anyone would trust proven liars
"The numbers have been greatly inflated. For example, the WHO/UNAIDS says
that there has been 2.2 million AIDS deaths in Uganda so far, but the
Ugandan Ministry of Health records a cumulative total of only 56,000 AIDS
deaths since the beginning of the epidemic. The WHO's report is 33 times
higher than the actual number of recorded, verified deaths. As of the end of
2001, official government bodies in the developing world have managed to
account for only 7 percent of the cumulative AIDS deaths that the WHO/UNAIDS
claim have occurred. The Russian Federation can only account for only 3
percent of the UNAIDS estimate of AIDS deaths. India has 2 percent of the
UNAIDS estimate. China has only 1 percent."-- Dr. Rodney Richards [2003]
Africa: Treating Poverty with Toxic Drugs By Liam Scheff
http://www.whale.to/a/scheff94.html

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