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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / AIDS / June 2006Poverty and HIV
There is no doubt that poverty exacerbates HIV disease. Lack of clean water, adequate food, access to medications to treat opportunistic infections and parasitic diseases--all may conspire to hasten disease progression. However, the notion put forward by braindead denialists that AIDS in Africa is simply due to poverty and not related to HIV disease is demonstrably wrong, as described below. HIV causes AIDS. Horrible, but true. And as an infectious disease, it is indifferent to ethnicity, social status, sexual orientation, gender or age. George M. Carter ***** HIV worse in Africa's rich: study Sydney Morning Herald -- June 16, 2006 http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/hiv-worse-in-africas-rich-study/2006/06/15/1149 964675846.html DURBAN: The richest people in Africa have higher HIV prevalence rates than the poorest, disputing common beliefs that the disease is driven by poverty. An analysis of data from eight African nations - debated at the third annual US President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief meeting on Tuesday - found the poorest 20 per cent of the population had a lower HIV prevalence rate than the richest 20 per cent. The study's author said the findings should be used to make sure AIDS prevention messages reached those who earned the most money. "Poverty-driven programs are likely to have limited impact on prevention efforts when the majority of HIV-infected people are the wealthiest, not the poorest," said Vinod Mishra, the director of research at ORC Macro, a US company that conducts demographic surveys around the world. Mr Mishra said wealthier people had more partners, "more opportunities to travel, more opportunities for casual sex" and rich men could afford to buy sex. Wealthy men in Africa also started having sex at an earlier age than poor men. Several delegates at the meeting later took issue with Mr Mishra's conclusions. "Ninety per cent of the people in Africa are poor," said John Lambert, a British development official. "The danger is that people could say that AIDS affects the wealthy more than the poor people. We worry about that." Thank you, Mr. Carter, for that intellectual tour de force. Now, could you cite one study that you feel strongly supports your "HIV=AIDS" claim? If you want to put this notion forth as a scientific claim, you need to cite some evidence, or do you know admit that this notion is more like a cult at this point than anything else? Or have you redefined science and not told the rest of us about this? >Thank you, Mr. Carter, for that intellectual tour de force. Now, could >you cite one study that you feel strongly supports your "HIV=AIDS" >claim? Just one? No. I can cite LOTS of studies. Look 'em up yourself. This just one demand is so f.cking stupid it is breathtaking. But then you're pretty f.cking stupid. So don't bother looking them up. You wouldn't understand them. George M. Carter > There is no doubt that poverty exacerbates HIV disease. Lack of clean > water, adequate food, access to medications to treat opportunistic [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > George M. Carter HIV causes AIDS. HIV causes AIDS. HIV causes AIDS. HIV causes AIDS. How many times must one repeat the holy mantra every evening to be able to so absolutely ban all critical thoughts about what's going on ? Don't you ever doubt ? Do you ever think for one millionth of a second that AIDS might be a scam indeed ? There are so many other ways to explain it all. I can't get it man ! All the so-called dissidents or deniers or denialists : they've been doubting a lot and most of them continu to doubt a lot and probably will never stop doubting. Apologist ? No doubt, never ! Just the f.cking mantra again and again and again and again. HIV, the virus that causes Aids. HIV, the virus that causes Aids. HIV, the virus that causes Aids. HIV, the virus that causes Aids. Have you all been to a military camp for training or what ? With a CD player repeating the same words all night long, every night ? I can't get it, really. >HIV causes AIDS. Yep. You get it now, doncha? >> HIV causes AIDS. > > Yep. You get it now, doncha? Now, al that is left for you to do is prove that hiv exist. Keep trying, you only been going 20 years and killed some million people with a bogus theory. The only way you "prolonged" life was by reducing the AZT dose, or changing to "softer" meds, that caused "only" strokes and heart attacks. The victims never died of aids, but from the side effects of the "meds" fashionable at that time. Bactrim causes pcp pneumonia. AZT causes starvation ans muscle waisting PI's caused strokes and heart attacks, (just like Vioxx, by the way.) "Doctors" are constantly putting pressure on asymptomatic patients to go on these highly toxic meds. Uwe Hayek.  SignatureL'intellectuel qui pense comme autrui ne sert à rien ! This is the bitterest pain among men, to have much knowledge but no power. Herodotus (484 BC - 430 BC), The Histories of Herodotus IDIOCY - Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups. > Bactrim causes pcp pneumonia. References please? I think you will find it cures PCP - somthing that was ably demonstrated in people with PCP before AIDS was described. > AZT causes starvation ans muscle waisting Is that a Freudian slip ("waisting")? Again, references please to AZT causing "starvation" > PI's caused strokes and heart attacks, (just like > Vioxx, by the way.) Yes, there is a similarity here. As you would know if you read a bit more widely, all NSAIDs seem to have an atherogenic/thrombogenic effect, not just Vioxx. Plently of other drugs have this effect too. That PIs can do this is not news. They have a number of side effects, but used properly they have tremendous benefits that outweigh any harms. > "Doctors" are constantly putting pressure on > asymptomatic patients to go on these highly toxic meds. References please? Name any HIV treatment guideline that supports this strategy. > IDIOCY - Never underestimate the power of stupid > people in large groups. Particularly groups of HIV denialists and other conspiracy theorists. >> Bactrim causes pcp pneumonia. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Is that a Freudian slip ("waisting")? Again, > references please to AZT causing "starvation" http://www.answers.com/wasting&r=67 Look at the Benetton advertisement. Azt destroys the intestinal wall, so food could no longer be digested, so the victim litterally "wastes" away from starvation. Dietist tried to stop this by recommending putting additional sugar in soft drinks. >> PI's caused strokes and heart attacks, (just like >> Vioxx, by the way.) [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > number of side effects, but used properly they have > tremendous benefits that outweigh any harms. The "tremendous" benefit was the reduction or halting azt altogether. 27 year old men got strokes. Harmless. >> "Doctors" are constantly putting pressure on >> asymptomatic patients to go on these highly toxic >> meds. > > References please? Name any HIV treatment guideline > that supports this strategy. [jaw dropping] You really do not know this ? I mean, you are saying that this is NOT common practice ? Because it is. All hiv+ persons I spoke to confirmed this. Documentaries on television showed it. Many people with a low t-cell count are asymptomatic, hiv+ and hiv-, it is a surrogate marker. By symptoms I mean, being or feeling ill. I will soon post on "Two imaginary diseases" were I will compare CFIDS and HIV+. (Chronic Fatigue Immune Dysfunction Syndrome) HIV+ : no symptoms -> patient is told he is very and even terminally ill. CFSIDS : more than 90% of same aids symptoms, all kinds of severe symptoms -> patient is told he is healthy, lazy, all between the ears. >> IDIOCY - Never underestimate the power of stupid >> people in large groups. > > Particularly groups of HIV denialists and other > conspiracy theorists. We are not large enough. Your confusion an overwhelming mainstream with a few dissidents. Uwe Hayek. SignatureL'intellectuel qui pense comme autrui ne sert à rien ! This is the bitterest pain among men, to have much knowledge but no power. Herodotus (484 BC - 430 BC), The Histories of Herodotus IDIOCY - Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups. >> Bactrim causes pcp pneumonia. > References please? I think you will find it cures PCP - somthing that [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Is that a Freudian slip ("waisting")? Again, references please to AZT > causing "starvation" No, it's the same troll morphing again. He changes his writing style(s) to suit the persona assumed, but continues to make those kinds of homonym errors. Only *one* way he can be spotted easily. I've seen him do it in other groups. B/ snip. >Now, al that is left for you to do is prove that hiv >exist. No, dear. I don't need to prove anything. Even your icon Duesberg recognizes that HIV exists. If all the technology used to identify HIV does not satisfy you, then you are probably one of those folks who like to think no pathogens exist. No viruses. No bacteria. Etc. George M. Carter > snip. > >>Now, al that is left for you to do is prove that hiv >>exist. > > No, dear. I don't need to prove anything. For proof denies faith, and without faith hiv theory is nowhere. We await the time that without babelfish, hiv-theory will vanish in a poof of logic. > Even your icon Duesberg > recognizes that HIV exists. > > If all the technology used to identify HIV does not satisfy you, Just like the "technology" that claimed cold fusion. > then > you are probably one of those folks who like to think no pathogens > exist. No viruses. No bacteria. Etc. You "pro-babbly" a lot. I also refuse to accept that scurvy is caused by a pathogen. Not probably, but certainly. > George M. Carter You forgot to specify the companies that sponsor you. SignatureL'intellectuel qui pense comme autrui ne sert à rien ! This is the bitterest pain among men, to have much knowledge but no power. Herodotus (484 BC - 430 BC), The Histories of Herodotus IDIOCY - Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups. >For proof denies faith, and without faith hiv theory >is nowhere. We await the time that without babelfish, >hiv-theory will vanish in a poof of logic. Right. A lot of vapors from a denialist. What the f.ck are you babbling about? >> Even your icon Duesberg >> recognizes that HIV exists. >> >> If all the technology used to identify HIV does not satisfy you, > >Just like the "technology" that claimed cold fusion. No, it is not like the technology of cold fusion. You have no basis for such a ridiculous assertion. If you are really a denialist, you're an embarassment to your cause. >You "pro-babbly" a lot. I also refuse to accept that >scurvy is caused by a pathogen. Not probably, but >certainly. Ah--who the hell says scurvy is caused by a pathogen? >You forgot to specify the companies that sponsor you. None. Who sponsors you? George M. Carter GMCarter wrote... > There is no doubt that poverty exacerbates HIV disease. Lack of clean > water, adequate food, access to medications to treat opportunistic > infections and parasitic diseases--all may conspire to hasten disease > progression. Poverty may make having HIV worse, but what the article below tries to dispel the myth that poverty causes HIV infection. I still think poor people - at least in the USA - are more likely to contract HIV, but poverty is so often blamed for things that really have nothing to do with it. For example, the left often claims that poverty is the root cause of terrorism, yet Osama bin Laden is from one of the richest families on earth and his 9/11 disciples were mostly rich spoiled brats from Saudi Arabia. I'm not sure why HIV would be more prevalent among rich Africans, it doesn't make much sense. Perhaps they are rich enough to afford a harem of sex slaves and that's what puts them at greater risk. >GMCarter wrote... >> There is no doubt that poverty exacerbates HIV disease. Lack of clean [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Poverty may make having HIV worse, but what the article below tries >to dispel the myth that poverty causes HIV infection. You got it, bub. >I still think >poor people - at least in the USA - are more likely to contract HIV, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >richest families on earth and his 9/11 disciples were mostly rich >spoiled brats from Saudi Arabia. Again, correct. >I'm not sure why HIV would be more prevalent among rich Africans, it >doesn't make much sense. Perhaps they are rich enough to afford a >harem of sex slaves and that's what puts them at greater risk. Or perhaps they get more injections but I imagine more use of sex workers is part of it. More time to screw around as it were. Poverty is more likely linked to lower educational status and having more children, however. Offsetting poverty can reduce these problems, so I think we still need better and more comprehensive approaches to addressing the issue of poverty. George M. Carter But it is not indifferent to ethnicity, sexual orientation etc - just check out the National Statistics..the chances of being struck down with HIV/AIDS in the UK when not homosexual is small...so it must depend on something else..it's not like catching any other type of virus. Perhaps I'm over-simplifying it....but doesn't really pass the common sense test > There is no doubt that poverty exacerbates HIV disease. Lack of clean > water, adequate food, access to medications to treat opportunistic [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > people could say that AIDS affects the wealthy more than the poor > people. We worry about that." Russ wrote... > But it is not indifferent to ethnicity, sexual orientation etc - just check > out the National Statistics..the chances of being struck down with HIV/AIDS > in the UK when not homosexual is small...so it must depend on something > else..it's not like catching any other type of virus. That used to be the case in the UK, but since they began inviting HIV+ Africans to immigrate and get free treatment with NHS, they have since surpassed homosexuals as the group making up the majority of HIV cases in Britain. http://www.newzimbabwe.com/pages/aidsuk.1568.html "The Health Protection Agency which monitors communicable diseases, warned that up to half of new cases [in the UK] diagnosed in 2002 came from Zimbabwe, with women being diagnosed at twice the rate of men."
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