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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / AIDS / May 2006

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A Cure For HIV

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CoreyWhite@gmail.com - 09 May 2006 02:41 GMT
There is a conspiracy that is preventing a real cure for HIV and Aids.
The govornment could stop the spread of HIV by building institutions
for people who test positive, where they could get free treatment and
couldn't have sexual contact with people who are negative.  We would
have to make HIV testing manditory at every doctors checkup, and in no
time the spread of aids would be contained to countries where they
continued to let HIV positive people infect those of us that were
healthy.

If there was funding for it, we could stop the spread of all diseases
by confining anyone who was sick to a hospital, and giving drug addicts
and criminals a chance to recover with therapy and detoxing.  Instead
of doing this we have welfare, and prison.  The system is barbaric, but
maybe it isn't a conspiracy.  Maybe we just have a deep desire to live
with our problems instead of healing them.

Tell me what you think about this idea, and we can all start writting
letters to the politicians.
Tom - 09 May 2006 15:25 GMT
> There is a conspiracy that is preventing a real cure for HIV and Aids.
> The govornment could stop the spread of HIV by building institutions
> for people who test positive, where they could get free treatment and
> couldn't have sexual contact with people who are negative.

Good idea!  We could call them "ghettos".  Or "concentration camps".

> If there was funding for it, we could stop the spread of all diseases
> by confining anyone who was sick to a hospital,

Or maybe we should just cull all the sick folks, so that only healthy
genetic configurations will reproduce.

> Tell me what you think about this idea, and we can all start writting
> letters to the politicians.

Remind them that we want the trains to run on time, too.
Satyr - 09 May 2006 16:08 GMT
>> There is a conspiracy that is preventing a real cure for HIV and
>> Aids. The govornment could stop the spread of HIV by building
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Remind them that we want the trains to run on time, too.

And a free Voldswagon. And maybe a little farmstead in Russia too,
while they're at it.
Satyr - 09 May 2006 16:11 GMT
>>> There is a conspiracy that is preventing a real cure for HIV and
>>> Aids. The govornment could stop the spread of HIV by building
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> And a free Voldswagon. And maybe a little farmstead in Russia too,
> while they're at it.

Heh. Or a Volkswagon. Either will do, I suppose.

Blasted rented fingers.
Meltdarok - 09 May 2006 16:58 GMT
>>>> There is a conspiracy that is preventing a real cure for HIV and
>>>> Aids. The govornment could stop the spread of HIV by building
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Heh. Or a Volkswagon. Either will do, I suppose.

Let me hear you say, "What?"
0 [ : )

Signature

meltdarok
http://hometown.aol.com/meltdarok/

Satyr - 10 May 2006 16:02 GMT
>>>>> There is a conspiracy that is preventing a real cure for HIV and
>>>>> Aids. The govornment could stop the spread of HIV by building
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> Let me hear you say, "What?"
> 0 [ : )

}:-)
mika - 09 May 2006 23:38 GMT
> > And a free Voldswagon. And maybe a little farmstead in Russia too,
> > while they're at it.
>
> Heh. Or a Volkswagon. Either will do, I suppose.
>
> Blasted rented fingers.

You should be confined along with everyone else who can't spell.  I'll
be next door with all the people who can't sing.
Satyr - 10 May 2006 16:08 GMT
>> > And a free Voldswagon. And maybe a little farmstead in Russia
>> > too, while they're at it.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> You should be confined along with everyone else who can't spell.
> I'll be next door with all the people who can't sing.

Oh, dear. I can sing, but seriously suck at dancing. A lover tried to
teach me to mambo and succeeded, sort of, though it threw out my back
for a month or so.
CoreyWhite@gmail.com - 09 May 2006 16:37 GMT
This is the only way we will ever cure HIV.  There is no new medicine
comming that will eliminate the disease, so it is going to continue
rapidly spreading.  The spirits spoke to me and told me this was the
answer.  We have done this before with other diseases, like
tuberculosis, so it isn't a concentration camp.  It is a quarantine.
The government might actually do this anyway.
Absorbed - 09 May 2006 17:19 GMT
> This is the only way we will ever cure HIV.  There is no new medicine
> comming that will eliminate the disease, so it is going to continue
> rapidly spreading.  The spirits spoke to me and told me this was the
> answer.  We have done this before with other diseases, like
> tuberculosis, so it isn't a concentration camp.  It is a quarantine.
> The government might actually do this anyway.

The ingeniuity of your method is shown by its wide array of
applications. I think there is an equal if not greater conspiracy to
prevent world-wide peace. Governments could disarm and we could
politely ask soldiers to put down their weapons. With the proper
funding, all violent persons could be confined.

We live with fresh theories and in exciting times.
BrentB - 09 May 2006 17:37 GMT
We already have a cure. and a pretty damn good conspiracy to go along
with it. All true.

Products Developed To Kill Viruses And
Antibiotic Resistant Strains of Bacteria

In 1993 DEDI developed a particular mineral product which inhibited or
killed every form of virus, bacteria and fungi it was tested against.
Also review AIDS/HIV - Is There A Cure?, and Cancer - Is There A Cure
at the top of this page.

This specifically engineered silver mineral encompassed by a specific
protein was fully perfected by 1995 and proved lethal against
antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria, and every virus it came in
contact with, without any adverse side effects at all.

Although, DEDI had developed a rough form of this product in 1993,
which revealed the potential effectiveness; without the help of Dr.
Willie Burgdorfer of the National Institute of Health (NIH), the
product would never have been developed to its highest effectiveness.

With the information gained from Dr. Burgdorfer; DEDI redesigned the
mineral product to Dr. Burgdorfer's specifications, which now brought
forth a product which, at varying strengths, was deadly against
bacteria, viral and fungal infections.

The laboratory test results, animal test results and human trial
results, revealed the following regarding infectious diseases:

  1. Very effective against AIDS/HIV
  2. Very effective against Lyme Disease
  3. Very effective against Hepatitis C
  4. Very effective against Shingles
  5. Very effective against Staphylococcus Aureus
  6. Very effective against sinus infections
  7. Very effective against ear infections
  8. Very effective against acne, boils, rashes, lupus and burns.
  9. Very effective against strep throat
 10. Very effective against food poisoning
 11. Very effective against fungal infections to include infections
under finger and toe nails
 12. Very effective in promotion of healingwithout excess scarring
tissue remaining.
 13. Possibly effective against leukemia, as tests were underway when
DEDI was forced out of business and the President imprisoned which were
revealing: That leukemia was not a cancer, but caused by some unknown
virus or bacteria. A doctor conducting trials upon 2 terminal leukemia
patients reported to DEDI that the white/red blood cells had normalized
in the two leukemia patients he was treating. After 3 months of
treatment they were off dialysis and were A-symptomatic.

http://discovery-experimental.com/infectious_diseases/infectious_diseases.htm
Tom - 09 May 2006 17:58 GMT
>> This is the only way we will ever cure HIV.  There is no new medicine
>> comming that will eliminate the disease, so it is going to continue
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> We live with fresh theories and in exciting times.

You'd need the soldiers to guard the prisoners.  If any violent prisoners
tried to escape, the guards would use violence to prevent it and thus become
guilty of violence themselves, which would mean that they would then be sent
to the same prison and we'd need even more guards, who would then become the
newest prisoners.  The game would go on until everyone was imprisoned.  At
that point, there would be nobody left to guard them and nobody to keep them
from escaping.  Fortunately, there would be nobody left for them to
victimize except other violent convicts.

Isn't that exciting?
Absorbed - 09 May 2006 21:48 GMT
> >> This is the only way we will ever cure HIV.  There is no new medicine
> >> comming that will eliminate the disease, so it is going to continue
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Isn't that exciting?

No. It seems I completely overlooked some serious flaws in my previous
statement.
CoreyWhite@gmail.com - 09 May 2006 23:31 GMT
I didn't know that they did that in cuba, but I just read a breaking
news story, so it looks like some people in the govornment are thinking
about the idea.

Zimbabwe: Sanitation Crucial in Fight Against HIV/Aids
The Herald (Harare)

May 8, 2006
Posted to the web May 9, 2006

Harare

THIRTY-EIGHT percent of Zimbabwe's rural population has access to
proper sanitation facilities, Health and Child Welfare Minister Dr
David Parirenyatwa said last week.

The minister, who was addressing water experts from the Southern
African Development Community region at an HIV and Aids mainstreaming
workshop held in Harare, also said there was need for the establishment
of an effective sanitation programme for rural communities to reduce
HIV-related opportunistic infections.

Sadc region, the minister said, should fight against the pandemic in a
collective manner. "We want stronger coordination and more openness in
the fight against HIV and Aids. The media should not sensationalise
Aids issues and should give the public right information," he said. Dr
Parirenyatwa attributed the reduction of the HIV and Aids prevalence in
the country from 31 percent in 1999 to the current 20,1 percent to the
collective approach in the fight against the pandemic. He, however,
said the 20,1 prevalence rate was still very high and there should be
educational campaigns on behavioural change. Speaking at the same
occasion, Minister of Water Resources and Infras tructural Development
Engineer Munacho Mutezo said inadequate funding was stifling
development in the water sector.

The minister paid tribute to the Swedish International Development
Agency (Sida) for supporting water and sanitation programmes in the
country. "We may differ or disagree with one another in other spheres
of development but it is clear that in the area of water development,
we should not," he said.

In response, Swedish Ambassador, Mr Sten Rylander said he was working
round the clock with a view to ensure that there was an improvement in
the relations between the two countries. "We must overcome our
differences as soon as possible," he said.

Head of the Sadc Water Division Mr Phera Ramoel said fighting HIV and
Aids was central to reducing poverty in the region. He said there was
need for collaboration between all other sectors of the economy in the
region in addressing the pandemic. The workshop, organised by Sida,
sought to promote best practices on how to hand le HIV and Aids and
gender issues in water management.
Tom - 09 May 2006 17:51 GMT
> This is the only way we will ever cure HIV.

"We"?  *You* are not part of any team that will have anything to do with
curing HIV.

Your team consists entirely of people who are so far out in left field that
they never even make it into the stadium.

> There is no new medicine
> comming that will eliminate the disease,

Not from you, anyway.

> The spirits spoke to me

Well, that settles it.  When it comes to giving you bad information, those
"spirits" are tops.

> We have done this before with other diseases, like
> tuberculosis, so it isn't a concentration camp.

Tuberculosis sanitoriums were where people went to get cured and then return
to their former lives, not where they went to get warehoused until they
died.  Places where people are warehoused until they die are concentration
camps.

Nor was tuberculosis eliminated by the use of sanitoriums.  The last of the
sanitoriums vanished in the 1940's with the advent of modern antibiotics,
which really do cure the disease.

Name me any disease, any disease at all, that was eliminated by imprisoning
those infected.
CoreyWhite@gmail.com - 09 May 2006 18:38 GMT
Tuberculosis is one of the most deadly and common major infectious
diseases today, infecting, as of 2004, 14.6 million people.[1] Nine
million new cases of the disease, resulting in two million deaths,
occur annually, mostly in developing countries. However, developed
countries are not spared the burden of tuberculosis. There is a rising
number of people in the developed world who contract tuberculosis
because they have compromised immune systems, typically as a result of
immunosupressive drugs or HIV/AIDS. These people are at particular risk
of tuberculosis infection and active tuberculosis disease.

Tuberculosis has been present in humans since antiquity, as the origins
of the disease are in the first domestication of cattle (which also
gave humanity viral poxes). Skeletal remains show prehistoric humans
(4000 BCE) had TB and tubercular decay has been found in the spines of
Egyptian mummies from 3000-2400 BCE. There were references to TB in
India around 2000 BCE, and indications of lung scarring identical to
that of modern-day TB sufferers in preserved bodies (such as mummies)
suggests that TB was present in The Americas from about 2000 BCE.

Phthisis is a Greek term for consumption. Around 460 BCE, Hippocrates
identified phthisis as the most widespread disease of the times which
was almost always fatal.

During the Industrial Revolution, tuberculosis was more commonly
thought of as vampirism. When one member of a family died from it, the
other members that were infected would lose their health slowly. People
believed that the cause of this was the original victim draining the
life from the other family members. To cure this, people would dig up
the body of what they thought was the vampire, open the chest and burn
the heart, sometimes with the rest of the body. Furthermore, people who
had TB exhibited symptoms similar to what people considered to be
vampire traits. People with TB often had symptoms such as red, swollen
eyes (which also creates a sensitivity to bright light), pale skin and
coughing blood (which people often thought needed to be replenished, so
they figured the only way for the afflicted to get blood back was by
sucking blood). This may be how much of the common mythology of the
vampire originated.

Although it was established that the pulmonary form was associated with
'tubercles' by Dr Richard Morton in 1689,[7][8] due to the variety of
its symptoms, TB was not identified as a single disease until the 1820s
and was not named 'tuberculosis' until 1839 by J. L. Schnlein. During
the years 1838-1845, Dr. John Croghan, the owner of Mammoth Cave,
brought a number of tuberculosis sufferers into the cave in the hope of
curing the disease with the constant temperature and purity of the cave
air. The first TB sanatorium opened in 1859 in Poland, with another
opening in the United States in 1885.

The bacillus-causing tuberculosis, Mycobacterium tuberculosis, was
identified and described on March 24, 1882 by Robert Koch. He received
the Nobel Prize in physiology or medicine in 1905 for this discovery.
Koch did not believe that bovine (cattle) and human tuberculosis were
similar, which held back the recognition of infected milk as a source
of infection. Later, this source was eliminated by the pasteurization
process. Koch announced a glycerine extract of the tubercle bacilli as
a "remedy" for tuberculosis in 1890, calling it 'tuberculin'. It was
not effective, but was later adapted by von Pirquet in a test for
pre-symptomatic tuberculosis.

The first genuine success in immunizing against tuberculosis developed
from attenuated bovine-strain tuberculosis by Albert Calmette and
Camille Guerin in 1906. It was called 'BCG' (Bacillus of Calmette and
Guerin). The BGG vaccine was first used on humans on July 18, 1921 in
France, although national arrogance prevented its widespread use in
either the USA, Great Britain, or Germany until after World War II.

Tuberculosis caused the most widespread public concern in the 19th and
early 20th centuries as the endemic disease of the urban poor. In 1815,
one in four deaths in England was of consumption; by 1918 one in six
deaths in France were still caused by TB. After the establishment in
the 1880s that the disease was contagious, TB was made a notifiable
disease in Britain; there were campaigns to stop spitting in public
places, and the infected poor were "encouraged" to enter sanatoria that
rather resembled prisons. Whatever the purported benefits of the fresh
air and labor in the sanatoria, 75% of those who entered were dead
within five years (1908).

The promotion of Christmas Seals was started in 1904 in Denmark as a
way to raise money for tuberculosis programs. It expanded to the United
States and Canada in 1907-08 to help the National Tuberculosis
Association (later called the American Lung Association).

In the United States, concern about the spread of tuberculosis played a
role in the movement to prohibit public spitting except into spittoons.

In Europe, deaths from TB fell from 500 out of 100,000 in 1850 to 50
out of 100,000 by 1950. Improvements in public health were reducing
tuberculosis even before the arrival of antibiotics, although the
disease's significance was still such that when the Medical Research
Council was formed in Britain in 1913 its first project was
tuberculosis.

It was not until 1946 with the development of the antibiotic
streptomycin that treatment rather than prevention became a
possibility. Prior to then only surgical intervention was possible as
supposed treatment (other than sanatoria), including the pneumothorax
technique: collapsing an infected lung to "rest" it and allow lesions
to heal, which was an accomplished technique but was of little benefit
and was discontinued after 1946.

Hopes that the disease could be completely eliminated have been dashed
since the rise of drug-resistant strains in the 1980s. For example,
Tuberculosis cases in Britain, numbering around 50,000 in 1955, had
fallen to around 5,500 in 1987, but in 2000 there were over 7,000
confirmed cases. Due to the elimination of public health facilities in
New York in the 1970s, there was a resurgence in the 1980s. The number
of those failing to complete their course of drugs was very high. NY
had to cope with more than 20,000 "unnecessary" TB-patients with many
multi-drug resistant strains (i.e., resistant to, at least, both
Rifampin and Isoniazid). The resurgence of tuberculosis resulted in the
declaration of a global health emergency by the World Health
Organization in 1993.

If we opened sanitoriums for people with TB today we could fight
antibiotic resistent strains and likely eliminate the disease, along
with HIV/Aids.

(From wikipedia)
jimmyrae@gmail.com - 20 May 2006 01:22 GMT
Great Idea - the call that FASCISM!!!  You must have a lot of problems
or a lot of folks who don't like you feeding you such hatred.  LOVE -
not HATE - get that down first and it will be a good start.  Oh, P.S. -
What are you planning on doing about Bird Flu?
Roger Coppock - 10 May 2006 15:08 GMT
> Name me any disease, any disease at all, that was
> eliminated by imprisoning those infected.

The press has reported cases where medical quarantine
worked in the last century.  Ebola, Marburg, and Lassa
Fever outbreaks come to mind.  All these cases started
with a small localized population, however.  The AIDS
pandemic is way beyond that point now.
Tom - 10 May 2006 20:30 GMT
>> Name me any disease, any disease at all, that was
>> eliminated by imprisoning those infected.
>
> The press has reported cases where medical quarantine
> worked in the last century.  Ebola, Marburg, and Lassa
> Fever outbreaks come to mind.

Are these diseases extinct?

> All these cases started
> with a small localized population, however.  The AIDS
> pandemic is way beyond that point now.

Yes, and the day when any sane person seriously thought that punishing the
victims would solve the problem has also passed.
GMCarter - 11 May 2006 10:44 GMT
>>> Name me any disease, any disease at all, that was
>>> eliminated by imprisoning those infected.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>Are these diseases extinct?

Nope. And they're incredibly contagious. Horrifically. People bleed
from every orifices and then some. Mouth, nose, eyes, tits. It is
absolutely horrible (the hemorrhagic infections).

>> All these cases started
>> with a small localized population, however.  The AIDS
>> pandemic is way beyond that point now.
>
>Yes, and the day when any sane person seriously thought that punishing the
>victims would solve the problem has also passed.

Absolutely. And HIV is not the same as these other infections by a
long shot. Quarantine for the hemorrhagic viruses may make some sense.
But even a pretty infectious disease like TB is not considered
appropriate for quarantine, except perhaps in cases where a person is
very infectious--and then, if lucky, they're getting care in a
hospital with reverse flow, etc.

Many places--from Russian prisons to rural communities and the poor in
inner cities--people die. Mostly because governments don't give a sh.t
about their people, with a few exceptions.

Too busy waging war or shoveling more wealth into the hands of a very
few.

        George M. Carter
papdean - 19 May 2006 05:06 GMT
                                AMEN!
jimmyrae@gmail.com - 20 May 2006 01:16 GMT
VERY well said Tom!  Bravo!
Brian Mailman - 09 May 2006 18:48 GMT
> This is the only way we will ever cure HIV.  There is no new medicine
> comming that will eliminate the disease, so it is going to continue
> rapidly spreading.  The spirits spoke to me and told me this was the
> answer.

I knew an old lady down the street that took her marching orders for the
day from the thermostat.

B/
jean013 - 15 May 2006 07:55 GMT
>> There is no new medicine comming
>> that will eliminate the disease,

Who needs a new medicine to eliminate an imaginary virus? The only thing
to do is learn to laugh about the fools running the old medicine.
GMCarter - 15 May 2006 12:15 GMT
>>> There is no new medicine comming
>>> that will eliminate the disease,
>
>Who needs a new medicine to eliminate an imaginary virus? The only thing
>to do is learn to laugh about the fools running the old medicine.

Sure, that's right. Tell that to David Pasquarelli. He'll have a good
belly laugh.

Oh. Wait. He doesn't have a belly. Or lungs to laugh with.

Because he, like so many millions of others, died of AIDS. Caused by
an imaginary virus that, directly and indirectly, caused his imaginary
T cells to plummet and imaginary opportunistic infections to kill him.

But then, I guess, all is maya.....
hiv.aids.poz@gmail.com - 18 May 2006 14:20 GMT
http://www.HIV-AIDS-POZ.com shows the scientific approach to HIV/AIDS
information.
dsaklad@gnu.org - 18 May 2006 16:15 GMT
> http://www.HIV-AIDS-POZ.com shows the scientific approach to HIV/AIDS
> information.

         > abstinence is the best prevention

A thought experiment.
The strategy is more effective... Get tested together for a variety of
sexually transmitted infections, including human immunodeficiency virus
and share the results with your potential sex partner BEFORE having sex
http://notb4weknow.blogspot.com
hiv.aids.poz@gmail.com - 19 May 2006 10:34 GMT
Some places to read about HIV/AIDS (scientific approach):

http://www.HIVsearch.com
http://www.HIVAIDSsearch.com
http://www.HIVforum.com
http://www.HIV-AIDS-CHAT.com
jimmyrae@gmail.com - 20 May 2006 00:56 GMT
And where will YOU run when they come to CURE You??  AIDA is not a
disease that is coming to get you, but with the fear I detect perhaps
it is you who is seeking IT out?  You aren't very informed on this
subject, are you?  How many loved ones have you lost to this horrible
disease?
jimmyrae@gmail.com - 20 May 2006 00:52 GMT
Well said Tom.  I was feeling the Nazi vibe upon reading that post too!
Well done and thank you!  Jimmy
Apotheosis - 20 May 2006 03:46 GMT
> Well said Tom.  I was feeling the Nazi vibe upon reading that post too!
> Well done and thank you!  Jimmy

There ya go Tommy... an admirer.

Of course he is probably about 14 years old, but something to build on.

Perseverance pays.

A
Dave - 09 May 2006 21:56 GMT
Could HIV/AIDS be eliminated if everyone was regularly tested, and if
infected terminated?  This would change the transmission parameters; I
did a population/ disease modelling course once, and the maths is quite
interesting.
dsaklad@gnu.org - 09 May 2006 22:14 GMT
Here's a thought experiment...

The strategy
Get tested together for a variety of sexually transmitted infections,
including human immunodeficiency virus and share the results with
your potential sex partner BEFORE having sex.

Here's a collaborative blog and a collaborative wiki about
the strategy of let's get tested together before we have sex...
for STDs
http://NotB4WeKnow.blogspot.com
http://www.seedwiki.com/wiki/not_b4_we_know

Earlier edits at
http://zork.net/dsaklad/notb4weknow

Your comments, feedback, suggestions, questions welcome...

> Could HIV/AIDS be eliminated if everyone was regularly tested, and if
> infected terminated?  This would change the transmission parameters; I
> did a population/ disease modelling course once, and the maths is quite
> interesting.
Dave - 09 May 2006 22:35 GMT
How about waiting until you marry your partner. (No divorce or
adulertery, of course).
mika - 09 May 2006 23:36 GMT
> How about waiting until you marry your partner. (No divorce or
> adulertery, of course).

Riiiiight.  Cause nobody who commits to monogamy ever cheats on their
spouse.
edrhodes@hotmail.com - 20 May 2006 15:33 GMT
> > How about waiting until you marry your partner. (No divorce or
> > adulertery, of course).
>
> Riiiiight.  Cause nobody who commits to monogamy ever cheats on their
> spouse.

that's what he's saying. No "outs" allowed.
Tom - 10 May 2006 03:53 GMT
> How about waiting until you marry your partner. (No divorce or
> adulertery, of course).

Another great idea.  How would you enforce it?
dsaklad@gnu.org - 10 May 2006 16:14 GMT
> > How about waiting until you marry your partner. (No divorce or
> > adulertery, of course).
>
> Another great idea.  How would you enforce it?

Department of Marriage Sanctity with arrest and prosecution powers.
That should do it.
Tom - 10 May 2006 20:29 GMT
>> > How about waiting until you marry your partner. (No divorce or
>> > adulertery, of course).
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Department of Marriage Sanctity with arrest and prosecution powers.
> That should do it.

It used to be common in this country for there to be a blood test required
to apply for marriage license.  However, that didn't help stop the spread of
sexually transmitted diseases because people have sex outside of marriage,
no matter what laws are passed.
edrhodes@hotmail.com - 20 May 2006 15:35 GMT
> > > How about waiting until you marry your partner. (No divorce or
> > > adulertery, of course).
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Department of Marriage Sanctity with arrest and prosecution powers.
> That should do it.

"Marriage Police, stop what you're doing unless that's you're
wife/husband!"

Anybody see the scene on the bus from "Dogma?"
dsaklad@gnu.org - 10 May 2006 16:12 GMT
> How about waiting until you marry your partner. (No divorce or
> adulertery, of course).

Well that's a very fine idea. Let me know when that idealized world
comes about.
CoreyWhite@gmail.com - 09 May 2006 23:40 GMT
Guidelines for voluntary testing for HIV, the virus that causes AIDS,
for adults and teens are expected to be released this summer by the
U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The guidelines would cover testing for every American ages 13 to 64
and, if adopted by physicians, could become a routine part of physical
examinations, the Associated Press reported.

Recommendations made by the CDC aren't legally binding but do influence
doctors and health insurance coverage.

Under the new guidelines, patients would be tested for HIV as part of a
standard series of tests done when they seek urgent or emergency care,
or even during routine physicals, the AP reported.

The CDC isn't recommending annual testing for everyone. Only people
considered at high risk for HIV infection would receive repeated,
yearly testing.

This standardized approach to HIV testing would reduce the stigma of
being tested, as well as help lower rates of HIV transmission,
according to the CDC.
Tom - 10 May 2006 04:00 GMT
> Guidelines for voluntary testing for HIV, the virus that causes AIDS,
> for adults and teens are expected to be released this summer by the
> U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Corey, do you know what the term "voluntary" means?  I don't think you do.
Or perhaps you simply weren't paying attention to that part.

> The CDC isn't recommending annual testing for everyone. Only people
> considered at high risk for HIV infection would receive repeated,
> yearly testing.

If they chose to.  Most won't.  The thing about people who engage in
high-risk behavior is that they don't always act in a safe and responsible
manner.  If they did, they wouldn't engage in high-risk behavior.  Get it?
jimmyrae@gmail.com - 20 May 2006 01:45 GMT
Corey -
Rent the film "And the band played On" and watch it, Please!  You are
talking about REAL PEOPLE here, Not numbers or statistics.  How many of
YOUR loved ones have either died or are living with HIV?  AIDS is a
monster that has taken away many of my loved ones and it isn't a cake
walk.  We need more research and loving, caring individuals to ever
find a cure to be free of it's terror and you are not speaking with any
compassion that I can detect.  Unfortunately, It is still one hell of a
fight since greedy beings PROFIT from such terrible things as AIDS -
But I still do what I can and am grateful there are those like
Elizabeth Taylor and Elton John (among others!) out there doing all
they can.  First and formost, we need to get over the stigma or
prejudice this dis-ease carries.  If you simply hate homosexuals and
assume this a "Gay Disease" (Which it is NOT) - then go to any Hospital
ward and volunteer, Hold a small Aids Baby in your arms and then tell
me what you feel.  There is already too much hatred in this world
today, If you desire a Solution, You must BE the Solution, not
pontificate.  Take someone's hand and be a good listener, Not a
preacher.  Be a shoulder if one desires to weep - Offer YOUR
handkerchief, You can't catch AIDS from tears.  Be a part of the
Solution, and it all begins with Love, Compassion, Respect and not
having to blow someone else's light out to make yours shine brighter.
There is room for us ALL in this world, And our time goes by fast
enough, Don't let Fear seduce you, Try a little Love, It helps!  I'll
say a potent Prayer for You.  Be Blessed!
 May Love & Light be with You & Yours,
                                             Jimmy
Tom - 10 May 2006 03:53 GMT
> Here's a thought experiment...
>
> The strategy
> Get tested together for a variety of sexually transmitted infections,
> including human immunodeficiency virus and share the results with
> your potential sex partner BEFORE having sex.

That would be great.  How would you enforce it?
dsaklad@gnu.org - 10 May 2006 14:34 GMT
> > Here's a thought experiment...
> >
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> That would be great.  How would you enforce it?

It's a choice potential sex partners make.

Enter in quotes...
"tested together"
at
http://google.com
or at
http://groups.google.com
Tom - 10 May 2006 20:25 GMT
>> > Here's a thought experiment...
>> >
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> It's a choice potential sex partners make.

Yes, so you said.  Now, how would you enforce it?
Tom - 10 May 2006 03:51 GMT
> Could HIV/AIDS be eliminated if everyone was regularly tested, and if
> infected terminated?

No.  People would quickly learn that they were risking an immediate death
sentence to allow themselves to be tested.  So resistance to the program
would quickly become overwhelming.

Unless, of course, you try to make the program secret.  However, a secret
that big with results that obvious is going to be found out pretty quickly.
george - 10 May 2006 21:44 GMT
> Could HIV/AIDS be eliminated if everyone was regularly tested, and if
> infected terminated?  This would change the transmission parameters; I
> did a population/ disease modelling course once, and the maths is quite
> interesting.

And who is going to compile the list of the worlds population?
and who is going to carry out the billions of yearly tests?
and who is going to pay for it all ?
Tom - 11 May 2006 00:03 GMT
>> Could HIV/AIDS be eliminated if everyone was regularly tested, and if
>> infected terminated?  This would change the transmission parameters; I
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> and who is going to carry out the billions of yearly tests?
> and who is going to pay for it all ?

Not to mention the ethical objections to killing all those people simply
because you don't trust them not to be responsible.  Who is going to silence
and shackle all the people who will find this method so morally repugnant
that it must be actively defied?  And how much will *that* cost?

Sometimes you can get so caught up in your mathematical models that you
forget the human equation.
dwickford@yahoo.com - 12 May 2006 22:21 GMT
What saves more lives in the long run?  Difficult decisions are
sometimes needed for special circumstances.  We need people with vision
to see what will benefit the nation.
Tom - 13 May 2006 05:58 GMT
> What saves more lives in the long run?  Difficult decisions are
> sometimes needed for special circumstances.  We need people with vision
> to see what will benefit the nation.

Yup.  It won't be you.
Erwin Hessle - 15 May 2006 00:14 GMT
> What saves more lives in the long run?

Saving lives? What on earth are you wittering on about?

Do you seriously think the people who don't have AIDS aren't going to
die?

> Difficult decisions are
> sometimes needed for special circumstances.  We need people with vision
> to see what will benefit the nation.

Yes. More government regulation. That's exactly what we need. More
fuckwits putting the interests of something that doesn't exist ahead of
the interests of 6 billion things that do.

If we are going to have concentration camps, it's c.nts like you who
should be put in them.

Erwin Hessle, 8=3
jimmyrae@gmail.com - 20 May 2006 02:02 GMT
Maybe you should ask Mr. Bush, Miss Rice or Mr. Rumsfeld then.  They
are doing such a bang up job with all those daily boxes coming back
from Iraq carrying what was left of our LOVED ONES!  Use your Heart and
Mind, NOT your Behind!  And, What will you do if they came for YOU, For
the better of all in the long run, of course...?  Come on, I was born
at night but not LAST NIGHT!
Don Saklad - 11 May 2006 01:22 GMT
> It used to be common in this country for there to be a
> blood test required to apply for marriage license...

But it had to have stopped or caught some cases.
That's like saying somebody devised a perfect system to stop
sexually transmitted infections.
But it wasn't imperfect either.
This makes sense that there would have been some cases caught and
it certainly would have made people aware of the problem
For this kind of law to come into existence there were a lot of
cases, evidence that there's an epidemic

There was a pattern. It was detectable. There were a significant
number of cases. People were dying from it and so on.

> And who is going to compile the list of the worlds population?
> and who is going to carry out the billions of yearly tests?
> and who is going to pay for it all ?

Nobody is going to pay for it.
It's only going to happen in first world countries and third
world countries will continue to have high death rates.  and with
all of those in the second and third world dying there will be
more stuff for us.
Tom - 11 May 2006 06:05 GMT
>> It used to be common in this country for there to be a
>> blood test required to apply for marriage license...
>
> But it had to have stopped or caught some cases.

If the goal was to eliminate these diseases, it was a complete flop.

>> And who is going to compile the list of the worlds population?
>> and who is going to carry out the billions of yearly tests?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> It's only going to happen in first world countries and third
> world countries will continue to have high death rates.

The we won't be eliminating the disease.

> and with
> all of those in the second and third world dying there will be
> more stuff for us.

Ethics?  We don' need no stinkin' ethics.
Don Saklad - 12 May 2006 00:32 GMT
         If the goal was to eliminate these diseases, it was a
         complete flop.

But then you could say that everything that medicine has done is
complete flop. Everything is a complete flop. No diseases have
been conquered because we haven't eliminated every possibility.
We could say that, it would be completely ridiculous to say that.
We would realize that we're speaking to a person with only black
and white vision, color blind, nuance blind. Unless everything in
the world is completely black or white either you're with us or
against us.

         The we won't be eliminating the disease.

That's right. Is there any disease that has been completely
eliminated, completely obliterated?

         Ethics?  We don' need no stinkin' ethics.

It's got nothing to do with ethics. They're dead. Their stuff is
there. Somebody should take their stuff and use it.
Tom - 12 May 2006 07:49 GMT
>          If the goal was to eliminate these diseases, it was a
>          complete flop.
>
> But then you could say that everything that medicine has done is
> complete flop.

No, there are more purposes to medical practices than the complete
elimination of a particular disease.  For instance, immunization can
eliminate all but extremely rare instances of a disease from a given
population, which is effectively eliminating that disease.  Laws insisting
on blood tests to apply for a marriage license fail to achieve this result.
So some medical practices are effective for the elimination of an epidemic
and others are not.

>          Ethics?  We don' need no stinkin' ethics.
>
> It's got nothing to do with ethics. They're dead.

The victims of HIV are not dead. Given the right medication they may live
longer than a lot o people who don't have the disease. That's what makes it
an important question of ethics whether or not you decide to kill them all.
Don Saklad - 12 May 2006 19:56 GMT
>>          If the goal was to eliminate these diseases,
>>          it was a complete flop.

But then you could say that everything that medicine has done is
complete flop.

> No, there are more purposes to medical practices than the
> complete elimination of a particular disease.

     If memory serves me correctly,
     YOU made the remark above about:

          "If the goal was to eliminate these diseases,
           it was a complete flop."

For instance, immunization can eliminate

     http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=eliminate

> all but extremely rare instances of a disease from a given
> population, which is effectively eliminating that disease.

     I'm wondering if the family of a person who died from
     one of those "eliminated" diseases would consider it
     "eliminated"?

> Laws insisting on blood tests to apply for a marriage license
> fail to achieve this result.

     Now you are back to not having eliminated a disease wo
     the effort, the people who were saved because of the
     effort don't count?

> So some medical practices are effective for the elimination of
> an epidemic and others are not.

     Its a pleasure to see you come around to my point, if
     only partially.  I'm looking forward to the complete
     collapse of your confused arguments.

>>          Ethics?  We don' need no stinkin' ethics.

It's got nothing to do with ethics. They're dead.

> The victims of HIV are not dead.

     Let me be more explicit then: the people who are dead are
     not alive.

> Given the right medication they may live
> longer than a lot o people who don't have the disease.

     Let me be more explicit then: the people who are no longer
     alive are dead, regardless of the lifespan of people who
     did not have that particular disease. Sorry for the
     so-called confusion.

> That's what makes it an important question of ethics whether or
> not you decide to kill them all.

     Let me be more explicit then: those people who died from
     HIV are no longer alive--and I did not kill them.
Meltdarok - 11 May 2006 06:34 GMT
>> It used to be common in this country for there to be a
>> blood test required to apply for marriage license...
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> all of those in the second and third world dying there will be
> more stuff for us.

Yeah right. More stuff for "us".

Signature

meltdarok
"Find it, assemble it, sell it, buy it; after that then--
salvage what you can."
http://hometown.aol.com/meltdarok/

Meltdarok - 11 May 2006 06:26 GMT
>> Could HIV/AIDS be eliminated if everyone was regularly tested, and if
>> infected terminated?  This would change the transmission parameters; I
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> and who is going to carry out the billions of yearly tests?
> and who is going to pay for it all ?

I nominate the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation.
And if found infected--ship them to Cuba and let
Castro show how healthcare should really be done!

Signature

meltdarok
http://hometown.aol.com/meltdarok/

GMCarter - 11 May 2006 10:45 GMT
>I nominate the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation.
>And if found infected--ship them to Cuba and let
>Castro show how healthcare should really be done!

As poor as Cuba is, it has better healthcare than the United States.
dwickford@yahoo.com - 12 May 2006 22:10 GMT
> > Could HIV/AIDS be eliminated if everyone was regularly tested, and if
> > infected terminated?  This would change the transmission parameters; I
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> and who is going to carry out the billions of yearly tests?
> and who is going to pay for it all ?
I guess by now the cat is out of the bag and among the pigeons, but if
HIV/Aids killed within 3 months the plague may never have got off the
ground.

If you know anthing about money a good government and central bank will
always have as much money as it needs.  This type of project could be
carried out by the agents of the new world order (or UN).

Yes, it would be difficult to trace people if they didn't use money
(assuming it will be all electronic in the near future.)
Peter Principle - 09 May 2006 22:17 GMT
> There is a conspiracy that is preventing a real cure for HIV and Aids.
> The govornment could stop the spread of HIV by building institutions
> for people who test positive, where they could get free treatment and
> couldn't have sexual contact with people who are negative.

The government has already done this. The government of Cuba, anyway...

http://www.aegis.com/news/Lt/1988/LT881104.html

Any other brilliant ideas you can't wait to share with us, sparky?

Welcome to reality. Enjoy your visit. Slow thinkers keep right.
------
Why are so many not smart enough to know they're not smart enough?

http://www.phule.net/mirrors/unskilled-and-unaware.html
© 1999 by the American Psychological Association
December 1999 Vol. 77, No. 6, 1121-1134

Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own
Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments

Justin Kruger and David Dunning
Department of Psychology
Cornell University

ABSTRACT:
...the authors found that participants scoring in the bottom quartile on
tests of humor, grammar, and logic grossly overestimated their test
performance and ability. Although their test scores put them in the 12th
percentile, they estimated themselves to be in the 62nd.
------
Absorbed - 09 May 2006 22:29 GMT
> X-No-archive: yes
> > There is a conspiracy that is preventing a real cure for HIV and Aids.
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> percentile, they estimated themselves to be in the 62nd.
> ------

You are quick assume the message of Corey's post. You advertise the
"Unskilled and Unaware of It" essay but appear to miss the message of
it yourself.

How do you know you understood the purpose of Corey's post?
Peter Principle - 15 May 2006 21:09 GMT
> You are quick assume the message of Corey's post. You advertise the
> "Unskilled and Unaware of It" essay but appear to miss the message of
> it yourself.
>
> How do you know you understood the purpose of Corey's post?

Well, gee, let's just see, shall we?

It was written in English. Check. I am fluent in English. Check.

Clear enough, or shall we tattoo it backwards across your sloping brow for
easy future reference?

Now, which parts  of the original post are you still having trouble
deciphering? Perhaps I can help. If you tell me your native tongue, perhaps
I can even tailor the requisite remedial lexical assistance to your specific
linguistic circumstances.

Jaybus Freaking Crisco...

Welcome to reality. Enjoy your visit. Slow thinkers keep right.
------
Why are so many not smart enough to know they're not smart enough?

http://www.phule.net/mirrors/unskilled-and-unaware.html
© 1999 by the American Psychological Association
December 1999 Vol. 77, No. 6, 1121-1134

Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own
Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments

Justin Kruger and David Dunning
Department of Psychology
Cornell University

ABSTRACT:
...the authors found that participants scoring in the bottom quartile on
tests of humor, grammar, and logic grossly overestimated their test
performance and ability. Although their test scores put them in the 12th
percentile, they estimated themselves to be in the 62nd.
------
Absorbed - 16 May 2006 01:50 GMT
> X-No-archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> I can even tailor the requisite remedial lexical assistance to your specific
> linguistic circumstances.

I never claimed to have trouble deciphering the post. I claimed that
you did. There are many ways to interpret a post.

Let us not dawdle over trivial matters, since you seem to be someone
who gets directly to the point. You are quick to point others towards
their flaws, so I presume you value the same. I am a little nervous,
contradicting someone possessing your wit, but a throaty gulp shall see
me through. If I have erred, please enlighten me.

I shall base my reasoning on two points:
1) You advertise the "Unskilled and Unaware" text, which states that
people grossly overestimate their abilities compared to their
performance. This suggests you believe this hypothesis.
2) You appear to believe you are more intelligent than the creator of
this thread.

Using these two points I shall engage my reason: Perhaps the intent of
the post you criticized is to make people criticize it, and therefore
you misinterpreted the post.

This may seem like a niggling trifle to you. Whether you misinterpreted
the post isn't the real question, however. The point is that there is
the possibility that you could have. There is the possibility that you
overestimate your own intelligence. There is the possibility that you
are a victim of exactly what you speak against.

How do you know that you aren't overestimating your own intelligence?

> Jaybus Freaking Crisco...
Peter Principle - 16 May 2006 05:49 GMT
>>> You are quick assume the message of Corey's post. You advertise the
>>> "Unskilled and Unaware of It" essay but appear to miss the message
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> I never claimed to have trouble deciphering the post. I claimed that
> you did. There are many ways to interpret a post.

Uh huh...

Considering even the dim bulb OP realized *exactly* what I was saying, which
might, had you 2 brain cells to rub together, indicate I obviously GOT it,
tell me, sparky, which stupid-a.s way did YOU interpret it?

Welcome to reality. Enjoy your visit. Slow thinkers keep right.
------
Why are so many not smart enough to know they're not smart enough?

http://www.phule.net/mirrors/unskilled-and-unaware.html
© 1999 by the American Psychological Association
December 1999 Vol. 77, No. 6, 1121-1134

Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own
Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments

Justin Kruger and David Dunning
Department of Psychology
Cornell University

ABSTRACT:
...the authors found that participants scoring in the bottom quartile on
tests of humor, grammar, and logic grossly overestimated their test
performance and ability. Although their test scores put them in the 12th
percentile, they estimated themselves to be in the 62nd.
------
Absorbed - 16 May 2006 09:53 GMT
> X-No-archive: yes
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> might, had you 2 brain cells to rub together, indicate I obviously GOT it,
> tell me, sparky, which stupid-a.s way did YOU interpret it?

I interpreted it as an attempt to provoke such criticism as you
espouse. From my perspective, you fell victim to his ploy.

Your reply avoids my point. I have thus far answered all your sensible
questions, while you don't answer mine. Perhaps you don't like to get
to the point as much as I presumed. I wonder if you actually read my
entire post.

I believe you are contradicting yourself. You appear to believe
yourself more intelligent than others, but then advertise a text that
states that people often overestimate their abilities.

I shall repeat my original question: how do you know that you aren't
overestimating your own intelligence?
Peter Principle - 16 May 2006 22:03 GMT
>>>>> You are quick assume the message of Corey's post. You advertise
>>>>> the "Unskilled and Unaware of It" essay but appear to miss the
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> I interpreted it as an attempt to provoke such criticism as you
> espouse. From my perspective, you fell victim to his ploy.

Why, but of course! It's all so obvious now that a Deep Thinker like you has
shed some light on the subject! It's been right there under all of our noses
all along!

When, in response, the OP said, "I didn't know that they did that in cuba
(sic), but I just read a breaking news story, so it looks like some people
in the govornment (sic) are thinking about the idea," what he actually MEANT
was, "Ah ha, you fell into my long planned and carefully laid rhetorical
trap, you silly man, you!"

Why, you're obviously a f.cking GENIUS for figuring it all out, and so
quickly, to boot! And I thought those were merely acne scars...

<giggle>

Jaybus Freaking Crisco...

Welcome to reality. Enjoy your visit. Slow thinkers keep right.
------
Why are so many not smart enough to know they're not smart enough?

http://www.phule.net/mirrors/unskilled-and-unaware.html
© 1999 by the American Psychological Association
December 1999 Vol. 77, No. 6, 1121-1134

Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own
Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments

Justin Kruger and David Dunning
Department of Psychology
Cornell University

ABSTRACT:
...the authors found that participants scoring in the bottom quartile on
tests of humor, grammar, and logic grossly overestimated their test
performance and ability. Although their test scores put them in the 12th
percentile, they estimated themselves to be in the 62nd.
------
Absorbed - 16 May 2006 23:46 GMT
> X-No-archive: yes
> >>>>
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
> shed some light on the subject! It's been right there under all of our noses
> all along!

Quick question: are you only capable of commenting on the first
paragraph of posts? or do you delve deeper sometimes? Maybe it's just
my posts.

> When, in response, the OP said, "I didn't know that they did that in cuba
> (sic), but I just read a breaking news story, so it looks like some people
> in the govornment (sic) are thinking about the idea," what he actually MEANT
> was, "Ah ha, you fell into my long planned and carefully laid rhetorical
> trap, you silly man, you!"

What is an OP?

You are completely correct. My argument is a niggling trifle -- hmm,
deja vu... anyway, no matter -- and, to be painfully honest, badly
formulated, as you demonstrated with your clean-cut sarcasm. The point
I am most eager to make you neglected. I shall repeat it again.

You appear to believe yourself more intelligent than others, but then
advertise a text that states that people often overestimate their
abilities. I am now asking for the third time. How do you know that you
aren't overestimating your own intelligence?

> Why, you're obviously a f.cking GENIUS for figuring it all out, and so
> quickly, to boot! And I thought those were merely acne scars...
>
> <giggle>

Not so much of a genius to understand what you are talking about here
though. Acne scars?

> Jaybus Freaking Crisco...

More indecipherable words.

You raise many questions. Why are you so keen to annoy me? Does it
relate to your childhood? Or maybe you are part of some flame culture?
Are your posts a way to relieve repressed anger? What sort of man is
behind this exterior?

The link in your signature doesn't work, incidentally.

> Welcome to reality. Enjoy your visit. Slow thinkers keep right.
> ------
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> percentile, they estimated themselves to be in the 62nd.
> ------
Peter Principle - 17 May 2006 22:50 GMT
> Quick question: are you only capable of commenting on the first
> paragraph of posts? or do you delve deeper sometimes? Maybe it's just
> my posts.

When one comes across a pile of steaming dog sh.t on the sidewalk, it is not
necessary for one to wade into it or pick it apart to deduce that the odds
are very high, approaching certainty, that the entire steaming, stinking
pile consists entirely of dog sh.t.

In this specific case, my initial reaction was born out by subsequent data
provided by the OP while yours did, indeed, turn out to be rhetorical dog
sh.t. IOW, I didn't bother to address any of your other "points" because I
was smart enough to deduce that they were dog sh.t *without* stepping into
the pile.

>> When, in response, the OP said, "I didn't know that they did that in
>> cuba (sic), but I just read a breaking news story, so it looks like
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> What is an OP?

Oy...

FYI, clueless newbie luser, OP is a well known, long used abbreviation for
ORIGINAL POSTER. Duh...

http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/O/thread-OP.html

See where it says "common" right in the definition, sparky? That's because
it's only been the standard term for ORIGINAL POSTER on Usenet for MORE THAN
TWENTY YEARS!

Welcome to the party, bubba. Figures actually bothering to LEARN a thing or
2 about what you're doing BEFORE you actually do it would be beyond your
apparently limited ken.

So, your Boogle Groken, is it, genius, or do the arcane mysteries of using
search engines fall too far outside of your cognitive skill set? Sheesh...

> You are completely correct. My argument is a niggling trifle -- hmm,
> deja vu... anyway, no matter -- and, to be painfully honest, badly
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> abilities. I am now asking for the third time. How do you know that
> you aren't overestimating your own intelligence?

For future reference - we could tattoo it backwards on your sloping brow,
perhaps -  only an idiot asks a question in a debate format when he has
absolutely no clue as to what the answer might be. It is, however, my
pleasure to answer your stupid question.

Other than having earned three degrees from prestigious institutions, other
than being widely published, other than having a Nobel nominating vote,
other than being a fellow at 2 think tanks and an associate at several
others, other than being a regular speaker and panelist at any number of
professional and technical conclaves, CLE's, etc., other than scoring as a
triple 9 on the WAIS-III, I have no way whatsoever to accurately gauge my
relative cognitive abilities. And you?

Of course, none of this is in the least germane, as your entire premise is
demonstrably false, rendering any conclusions you may try to draw wholly
fallacious. I *never* said I was more intelligent than anyone. You merely
ASSumed that, genius. Therefore, your attempt to frame you query as a
syllogism utterly fails before you even make it out of the gate.

>> Why, you're obviously a f.cking GENIUS for figuring it all out, and
>> so quickly, to boot! And I thought those were merely acne scars...
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Not so much of a genius to understand what you are talking about here
> though. Acne scars?

Obviously, genius, those are actually FORK HOLES on your face.

<ba-da-BUM!>

Yeah, yer every bit as sharp as bowling ball, sparky...

>> Jaybus Freaking Crisco...
>
> More indecipherable words.

No doubt, "Sheesh, what a maroon," is a mystery to you, as well...

> You raise many questions. Why are you so keen to annoy me? Does it
> relate to your childhood? Or maybe you are part of some flame culture?
> Are your posts a way to relieve repressed anger? What sort of man is
> behind this exterior?

Sorry. You've already exceeded your quota for stupid questions for today.
Please try again later. You may wish to use the time to try to assemble 2 or
more brain cells to rub together before your next attempt.

Welcome to reality. Enjoy your visit. Slow thinkers keep right.
------
Why are so many not smart enough to know they're not smart enough?

http://www.phule.net/mirrors/unskilled-and-unaware.html
© 1999 by the American Psychological Association
December 1999 Vol. 77, No. 6, 1121-1134

Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own
Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments

Justin Kruger and David Dunning
Department of Psychology
Cornell University

ABSTRACT:
...the authors found that participants scoring in the bottom quartile on
tests of humor, grammar, and logic grossly overestimated their test
performance and ability. Although their test scores put them in the 12th
percentile, they estimated themselves to be in the 62nd.
------
Meltdarok - 18 May 2006 00:30 GMT
>>> When, in response, the OP said, "I didn't know that they did that in
>>> cuba (sic), but I just read a breaking news story, so it looks like
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> or 2 about what you're doing BEFORE you actually do it would be beyond
> your apparently limited ken.

It seems that the OP was trying to learn someting from *you*.

> So, your Boogle Groken, is it, genius, or do the arcane mysteries of
> using search engines fall too far outside of your cognitive skill set?
> Sheesh...

Or maybe f.cking ASK WHAT THE HELL IT MEANS!!!!!!!

>> You are completely correct. My argument is a niggling trifle -- hmm,
>> deja vu... anyway, no matter -- and, to be painfully honest, badly
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> absolutely no clue as to what the answer might be. It is, however, my
> pleasure to answer your stupid question.

The only stupid question is the one unasked.
(Gee, where have I heard that one before?)

http://www.caregiver.com/editorials/stupid_question.htm

> Other than having earned three degrees from prestigious institutions,
> other than being widely published, other than having a Nobel nominating
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Of course, none of this is in the least germane,

It most certainly is not.

> Sorry. You've already exceeded your quota for stupid questions for today.
> Please try again later. You may wish to use the time to try to assemble 2
> or more brain cells to rub together before your next attempt.
>
> Welcome to reality. Enjoy your visit. Slow thinkers keep right.

Urban thinkers, stay on the sidewalk.

> ------
> Why are so many not smart enough to know they're not smart enough?
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> percentile, they estimated themselves to be in the 62nd.
> ------

Signature

meltdarok
http://hometown.aol.com/meltdarok/

Peter Principle - 19 May 2006 21:17 GMT
>> So, your Boogle Groken, is it, genius, or do the arcane mysteries of
>> using search engines fall too far outside of your cognitive skill
>> set? Sheesh...
>
> Or maybe f.cking ASK WHAT THE HELL IT MEANS!!!!!!!

Why, that's f.cking BRILLIANT! You are obviously a Deep Thinker (tm)! But OF
COURSE it makes more sense to seek the opinion of a bunch of idiots on
Usenet rather to look up any of the THOUSANDS of authoritative sources on
your own at Google! Why, you're obviously a bona fide GENIUS!

DYI, son, DIY. You should probably RTFM, first. If that's too far beyond
your abilities, at least STFU, son, STFU, 'cause yer difficulties here are
caused by a PBKC...

Welcome to reality. Enjoy your visit. Slow thinkers keep right.
------
Why are so many not smart enough to know they're not smart enough?

http://www.phule.net/mirrors/unskilled-and-unaware.html
© 1999 by the American Psychological Association
December 1999 Vol. 77, No. 6, 1121-1134

Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own
Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments

Justin Kruger and David Dunning
Department of Psychology
Cornell University

ABSTRACT:
...the authors found that participants scoring in the bottom quartile on
tests of humor, grammar, and logic grossly overestimated their test
performance and ability. Although their test scores put them in the 12th
percentile, they estimated themselves to be in the 62nd.
------
Absorbed - 18 May 2006 10:31 GMT
> X-No-archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> was smart enough to deduce that they were dog sh.t *without* stepping into
> the pile.

So much dog sh.t that you keep returning to reply. Perhaps each post is
for my benefit.

> >> When, in response, the OP said, "I didn't know that they did that in
> >> cuba (sic), but I just read a breaking news story, so it looks like
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> So, your Boogle Groken, is it, genius, or do the arcane mysteries of using
> search engines fall too far outside of your cognitive skill set? Sheesh...

I can and did search, but alas it was unfruitful, so I asked. In the
future I will search the Jargon File first. How does that sound?

> > You are completely correct. My argument is a niggling trifle -- hmm,
> > deja vu... anyway, no matter -- and, to be painfully honest, badly
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> triple 9 on the WAIS-III, I have no way whatsoever to accurately gauge my
> relative cognitive abilities. And you?

Well apart from being called a "f.cking GENIUS" from someone claiming
to be a Nobel nominating, think tank associating, regular speaking, and
triple 9 scoring on the WAIS-III, I have no way whatsoever to
accurately gauge my relative cognitive abilities.

> Of course, none of this is in the least germane, as your entire premise is
> demonstrably false, rendering any conclusions you may try to draw wholly
> fallacious. I *never* said I was more intelligent than anyone. You merely
> ASSumed that, genius. Therefore, your attempt to frame you query as a
> syllogism utterly fails before you even make it out of the gate.

Preceding my question I stated "You appear to believe yourself more
intelligent". I think this is a fair assumption to make. Do you? From
the way you refer to others and your signature, I believe most people
will make this assumption. I now know not to make such a foolish
assumption. I think I deserve another scolding from the alpha male.

> >> Why, you're obviously a f.cking GENIUS for figuring it all out, and
> >> so quickly, to boot! And I thought those were merely acne scars...
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> Please try again later. You may wish to use the time to try to assemble 2 or
> more brain cells to rub together before your next attempt.

I've tried my best.
jspreen - 18 May 2006 11:35 GMT
Le Thu, 18 May 2006 11:31:30 +0200, Absorbed <purestdeformity@hotmail.com>  
a écrit:

> I've tried my best.

I'm astonished you answer an a.shole like Peter Principle and admire your  
capacities to stay calm and polite.

Signature

Utilisant le client e-mail révolutionnaire d'Opera :  
http://www.opera.com/mail/

Absorbed - 18 May 2006 13:43 GMT
> Le Thu, 18 May 2006 11:31:30 +0200, Absorbed <purestdeformity@hotmail.com>
> a écrit:
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> I'm astonished you answer an a.shole like Peter Principle and admire your
> capacities to stay calm and polite.

I like to test myself.
Peter Principle - 19 May 2006 21:19 GMT
>>> Quick question: are you only capable of commenting on the first
>>> paragraph of posts? or do you delve deeper sometimes? Maybe it's
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> So much dog sh.t that you keep returning to reply. Perhaps each post
> is for my benefit.

<snip of idiocy lagniappe>

Or, perhaps you're just too damn self involved to notice all of the
laughing...

Hint: Don't give up your day job just yet, but you make one helluva clown.
You should be proud. It's a special skill to be able to bring laughter to so
many in these trying times.

Welcome to reality. Enjoy your visit. Slow thinkers keep right.
------
Why are so many not smart enough to know they're not smart enough?

http://www.phule.net/mirrors/unskilled-and-unaware.html
© 1999 by the American Psychological Association
December 1999 Vol. 77, No. 6, 1121-1134

Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own
Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments

Justin Kruger and David Dunning
Department of Psychology
Cornell University

ABSTRACT:
...the authors found that participants scoring in the bottom quartile on
tests of humor, grammar, and logic grossly overestimated their test
performance and ability. Although their test scores put them in the 12th
percentile, they estimated themselves to be in the 62nd.
------
Absorbed - 20 May 2006 14:02 GMT
> X-No-archive: yes
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> Or, perhaps you're just too damn self involved to notice all of the
> laughing...

Perhaps so.

> Hint: Don't give up your day job just yet, but you make one helluva clown.
> You should be proud. It's a special skill to be able to bring laughter to so
> many in these trying times.

I didn't realise I was being such a fool. I shall be silent.

> Welcome to reality. Enjoy your visit. Slow thinkers keep right.
> ------
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> percentile, they estimated themselves to be in the 62nd.
> ------
edrhodes@hotmail.com - 20 May 2006 15:44 GMT
> FYI, clueless newbie luser, OP is a well known, long used abbreviation for
> ORIGINAL POSTER. Duh...
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> it's only been the standard term for ORIGINAL POSTER on Usenet for MORE THAN
> TWENTY YEARS!

To be fair, I figured out what it ment, but this is the first time I've
ever seen it used.