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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / AIDS / May 2006

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Why I Quit HIV by Rebecca V. Culshaw

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Alex - 17 Mar 2006 08:29 GMT
I've always said it, but the epidemiology of HIV/AIDS, especially in Africa
does not make sense.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig7/culshaw1.html

Why I Quit HIV
by Rebecca V. Culshaw

As I write this, in the late winter of 2006, we are more than twenty years into the AIDS era. Like
many, a large part of my life has been irreversibly affected by AIDS. My entire adolescence and
adult life - as well as the lives of many of my peers - has been overshadowed by the belief in a
deadly, sexually transmittable pathogen and the attendant fear of intimacy and lack of trust that
belief engenders.

To add to this impact, my chosen career has developed around the HIV model of AIDS. I received my
Ph.D. in 2002 for my work constructing mathematical models of HIV infection, a field of study I
entered in 1996. Just ten years later, it might seem early for me to be looking back on and
seriously reconsidering my chosen field, yet here I am.

My work as a mathematical biologist has been built in large part on the paradigm that HIV causes
AIDS, and I have since come to realize that there is good evidence that the entire basis for this
theory is wrong. AIDS, it seems, is not a disease so much as a sociopolitical construct that few
people understand and even fewer question. The issue of causation, in particular, has become beyond
question - even to bring it up is deemed irresponsible.

Why have we as a society been so quick to accept a theory for which so little solid evidence exists?
Why do we take proclamations by government institutions like the NIH and the CDC, via newscasters
and talk show hosts, entirely on faith? The average citizen has no idea how weak the connection
really is between HIV and AIDS, and this is the manner in which scientifically insupportable phrases
like "the AIDS virus" or "an AIDS test" have become part of the common vernacular despite no
evidence for their accuracy.

When it was announced in 1984 that the cause of AIDS had been found in a retrovirus that came to be
known as HIV, there was a palpable panic. My own family was immediately affected by this panic,
since my mother had had several blood transfusions in the early 1980s as a result of three late
miscarriages she had experienced. In the early days, we feared mosquito bites, kissing, and public
toilet seats. I can still recall the panic I felt after looking up in a public restroom and seeing
some graffiti that read "Do you have AIDS yet? If not, sit on this toilet seat."

But I was only ten years old then, and over time the panic subsided to more of a dull roar as it
became clear that AIDS was not as easy to "catch" as we had initially believed. Fear of going to the
bathroom or the dentist was replaced with a more realistic wariness of having sex with anyone we
didn't know really, really well. As a teenager who was in no way promiscuous, I didn't have much to
worry about.

That all changed - or so I thought - when I was twenty-one. Due to circumstances in my personal life
and a bit of paranoia that (as it turned out, falsely and completely groundlessly) led me to believe
I had somehow contracted "AIDS," I got an HIV test. I spent two weeks waiting for the results,
convinced that I would soon die, and that it would be "all my fault." This was despite the fact that
I was perfectly healthy, didn't use drugs, and wasn't promiscuous - low-risk by any definition. As
it happened, the test was negative, and, having felt I had been granted a reprieve, I vowed not to
take more risks, and to quit worrying so much.

Over the past ten years, my attitude toward HIV and AIDS has undergone a dramatic shift. This shift
was catalyzed by the work I did as a graduate student, analyzing mathematical models of HIV and the
immune system. As a mathematician, I found virtually every model I studied to be unrealistic. The
biological assumptions on which the models were based varied from author to author, and this made no
sense to me. It was around this time, too, that I became increasingly perplexed by the stories I
heard about long-term survivors. From my admittedly inexpert viewpoint, the major thing they all had
in common - other than HIV - was that they lived extremely healthy lifestyles. Part of me was
becoming suspicious that being HIV-positive didn't necessarily mean you would ever get AIDS.

By a rather curious twist of fate, it was on my way to a conference to present the results of a
model of HIV that I had proposed together with my advisor, that I came across an article by Dr.
David Rasnick about AIDS and the corruption of modern science. As I sat on the airplane reading this
story, in which he said "the more I examined HIV, the less it made sense that this largely inactive,
barely detectable virus could cause such devastation," everything he wrote started making sense to
me in a way that the currently accepted model did not. I didn't have anywhere near all the
information, but my instincts told me that what he said seemed to fit.

Over the past ten years, I nevertheless continued my research into mathematical models of HIV
infection, all the while keeping an ear open for dissenting voices. By now, I have read hundreds of
articles on HIV and AIDS, many from the dissident point of view but far, far more from that of the
establishment, which unequivocally promotes the idea that HIV causes AIDS and that the case is
closed. In that time, I even published four papers on HIV (from a modeling perspective). I justified
my contributions to a theory I wasn't convinced of by telling myself these were purely theoretical,
mathematical constructs, never to be applied in the real world. I suppose, in some sense also, I
wanted to keep an open mind.

So why is it that only now have I decided that enough is enough, and I can no longer in any capacity
continue to support the paradigm on which my entire career has been built?

As a mathematician, I was taught early on about the importance of clear definitions. AIDS, if you
consider its definition, is far from clear, and is in fact not even a consistent entity. The
classification "AIDS" was introduced in the early 1980s not as a disease but as a surveillance tool
to help doctors and public health officials understand and control a strange "new" syndrome
affecting mostly young gay men. In the two decades intervening, it has evolved into something quite
different. AIDS today bears little or no resemblance to the syndrome for which it was named. For one
thing, the definition has actually been changed by the CDC several times, continually expanding to
include ever more diseases (all of which existed for decades prior to AIDS), and sometimes, no
disease whatsoever. More than half of all AIDS diagnoses in the past several years in the United
States have been made on the basis of a T-cell count and a "confirmed" positive antibody test - in
other words, a deadly disease has been diagnosed over and over again on the basis of no clinical
disease at all. And the leading cause of death in HIV-positives in the last few years has been liver
failure, not an AIDS-defining disease in any way, but rather an acknowledged side effect of protease
inhibitors, which asymptomatic individuals take in massive daily doses, for years.

The epidemiology of HIV and AIDS is puzzling and unclear as well. In spite of the fact that AIDS
cases increased rapidly from their initial observation in the early 1980s and reached a peak in 1993
before declining rapidly, the number of HIV-positive individuals in the U.S. has remained constant
at one million since the advent of widespread HIV antibody testing. This cannot be due to anti-HIV
therapy, since the annual mortality rate of North American HIV-positives who are treated with
anti-HIV drugs is much higher - between 6.7 and 8.8% - than would be the approximately 1-2% global
mortality rate of HIV-positives if all AIDS cases were fatal in a given year.

Even more strangely, HIV has been present everywhere in the U.S., in every population tested
including repeat blood donors and military recruits, at a virtually constant rate since testing
began in 1985. It is deeply confusing that a virus thought to have been brought to the AIDS
epicenters of New York, San Francisco and Los Angeles in the early 1970s could possibly have spread
so rapidly at first, yet have stopped spreading completely as soon as testing began.

Returning for a moment to the mathematical modeling, one aspect that had always puzzled me was the
lack of agreement on how to accurately represent the actual biological mechanism of immune
impairment. AIDS is said to be caused by a dramatic loss of the immune system's T-cells, said loss
being presumably caused by HIV. Why then could no one agree on how to mathematically model the
dynamics of the fundamental disease process - that is, how are T-cells actually killed by HIV? Early
models assumed that HIV killed T-cells directly, by what is referred to as lysis. An infected cell
lyses, or bursts, when the internal viral burden is so high that it can no longer be contained, just
like your grocery bag breaks when it's too full. This is in fact the accepted mechanism of
pathogenesis for virtually all other viruses. But it became clear that HIV did not in fact kill
T-cells in this manner, and this concept was abandoned, to be replaced by various other ones, each
of which resulted in very different models and, therefore, different predictions. Which model was
"correct" never was clear.

As it turns out, the reason there was no consensus mathematically as to how HIV killed T-cells was
because there was no biological consensus. There still isn't. HIV is possibly the most studied
microbe in history - certainly it is the best-funded - yet there is still no agreed-upon mechanism
of pathogenesis. Worse than that, there are no data to support the hypothesis that HIV kills T-cells
at all. It doesn't in the test tube. It mostly just sits there, as it does in people - if it can be
found at all. In Robert Gallo's seminal 1984 paper in which he claims "proof" that HIV causes AIDS,
actual HIV could be found in only 26 out of 72 AIDS patients. To date, actual HIV remains an elusive
target in those with AIDS or simply HIV-positive.

This is starkly illustrated by the continued use of antibody tests to diagnose HIV infection.
Antibody tests are fairly standard to test for certain microbes, but for anything other than HIV,
the main reason they are used in place of direct tests (that is, actually looking for the bacteria
or virus itself) is because they are generally much easier and cheaper than direct testing. Most
importantly, such antibody tests have been rigorously verified against the gold standard of
microbial isolation. This stands in vivid contrast to HIV, for which antibody tests are used because
there exists no test for the actual virus. As to so-called "viral load," most people are not aware
that tests for viral load are neither licensed nor recommended by the FDA to diagnose HIV infection.
This is why an "AIDS test" is still an antibody test. Viral load, however, is used to estimate the
health status of those already diagnosed HIV-positive. But there are very good reasons to believe it
does not work at all. Viral load uses either PCR or a technique called branched-chained DNA
amplification (bDNA). PCR is the same technique used for "DNA fingerprinting" at crime scenes where
only trace amounts of materials can be found. PCR essentially mass-produces DNA or RNA so that it
can be seen. If something has to be mass-produced to even be seen, and the result of that
mass-production is used to estimate how much of a pathogen there is, it might lead a person to
wonder how relevant the pathogen was in the first place. Specifically, how could something so hard
to find, even using the most sensitive and sophisticated technology, completely decimate the immune
system? bDNA, while not magnifying anything directly, nevertheless looks only for fragments of DNA
believed, but not proven, to be components of the genome of HIV - but there is no evidence to say
that these fragments don't exist in other genetic sequences unrelated to HIV or to any virus. It is
worth noting at this point that viral load, like antibody tests, has never been verified against the
gold standard of HIV isolation. bDNA uses PCR as a gold standard, PCR uses antibody tests as a gold
standard, and antibody tests use each other. None use HIV itself.

There is good reason to believe the antibody tests are flawed as well. The two types of tests
routinely used are the ELISA and the Western Blot (WB). The current testing protocol is to "verify"
a positive ELISA with the "more specific" WB (which has actually been banned from diagnostic use in
the UK because it is so unreliable). But few people know that the criteria for a positive WB vary
from country to country and even from lab to lab. Put bluntly, a person's HIV status could well
change depending on the testing venue. It is also possible to test "WB indeterminate," which
translates to any one of "uninfected," "possibly infected," or even, absurdly, "partly infected"
under the current interpretation. This conundrum is confounded by the fact that the proteins
comprising the different reactive "bands" on the WB test are all claimed to be specific to HIV,
raising the question of how a truly uninfected individual could possess antibodies to even one
"HIV-specific" protein.

I have come to sincerely believe that these HIV tests do immeasurably more harm than good, due to
their astounding lack of specificity and standardization. I can buy the idea that anonymous
screening of the blood supply for some nonspecific marker of ill health (which, due to cross
reactivity with many known pathogens, a positive HIV antibody test often seems to be) is useful. I
cannot buy the idea that any individual needs to have a diagnostic HIV test. A negative test may not
be accurate (whatever that means), but a positive one can create utter havoc and destruction in a
person's life - all for a virus that most likely does absolutely nothing. I do not feel it is going
too far to say that these tests ought to be banned for diagnostic purposes.

The real victims in this mess are those whose lives are turned upside-down by the stigma of an HIV
diagnosis. These people, most of whom are perfectly healthy, are encouraged to avoid intimacy and
are further branded with the implication that they were somehow dreadfully foolish and careless.
Worse, they are encouraged to take massive daily doses of some of the most toxic drugs ever
manufactured. HIV, for many years, has fulfilled the role of a microscopic terrorist. People have
lost their jobs, been denied entry into the Armed Forces, been refused residency in and even entry
into some countries, even been charged with assault or murder for having consensual sex; babies have
been taken from their mothers and had toxic medications forced down their throats. There is no
precedent for this type of behavior, as it is all in the name of a completely unproven,
fundamentally flawed hypothesis, on the basis of highly suspect, indirect tests for supposed
infection with an allegedly deadly virus - a virus that has never been observed to do much of
anything.

As to the question of what does cause AIDS, if it is not HIV, there are many plausible explanations
given by people known to be experts. Before the discovery of HIV, AIDS was assumed to be a lifestyle
syndrome caused mostly by indiscriminate use of recreational drugs. Immunosuppression has multiple
causes, from an overload of microbes to malnutrition. Probably all of these are true causes of AIDS.
Immune deficiency has many manifestations, and a syndrome with many manifestations is likely
multicausal as well. Suffice it to say that the HIV hypothesis of AIDS has offered nothing but
predictions - of its spread, of the availability of a vaccine, of a forthcoming animal model, and so
on - that have not materialized, and it has not saved a single life.

After ten years involved in the academic side of HIV research, as well as in the academic world at
large, I truly believe that the blame for the universal, unconditional, faith-based acceptance of
such a flawed theory falls squarely on the shoulders of those among us who have actively endorsed a
completely unproven hypothesis in the interests of furthering our careers. Of course, hypotheses in
science deserve to be studied, but no hypothesis should be accepted as fact before it is proven,
particularly one whose blind acceptance has such dire consequences.

For over twenty years, the general public has been greatly misled and ill-informed. As someone who
has been raised by parents who taught me from a young age never to believe anything just because
"everyone else accepts it to be true," I can no longer just sit by and do nothing, thereby
contributing to this craziness. And the craziness has gone on long enough. As humans - as honest
academics and scientists - the only thing we can do is allow the truth to come to light.

March 3, 2006

Rebecca V. Culshaw, Ph.D., is a mathematical biologist who has been working on mathematical models
of HIV infection for the past ten years. She received her Ph.D. (mathematics with a specialization
in mathematical biology) from Dalhousie University in Canada in 2002 and is currently employed as an
Assistant Professor of Mathematics at a university in Texas.
Moira de Swardt - 17 Mar 2006 11:48 GMT
"Alex" <avdeelen.REMOFETHIS1@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message

> I've always said it, but the epidemiology of HIV/AIDS, especially in Africa
> does not make sense.

You've always spoken rubbish, but this is at least the second time
you've posted this particular rubbish.  Posting it again doesn't
make it any more valid the second time round.

--
Moira de Swardt posting from Johannesburg, South Africa
Remove the dot in my address to find me at home.
Skokkie - 17 Mar 2006 15:23 GMT
> "Alex" <avdeelen.REMOFETHIS1@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> you've posted this particular rubbish.  Posting it again doesn't
> make it any more valid the second time round.

Preach it Moira - All of this intellectual posturing whilst people are
dying, it is really sad, really sad.

"When I'm drinking my Bonaparte shandy, eating more than enough apple pie,
will I glance at my screen and see real human beings, starve to death right
in front of my eyes." Gilbert o'Sullivan - sometime during the 1960's
Moira de Swardt - 17 Mar 2006 21:48 GMT
"Skokkie" <Glenton@hotmail.com> wrote in message

> Preach it Moira - All of this intellectual posturing whilst people are
> dying, it is really sad, really sad.

It's not even intellectual posturing.  It's garbage.

--
Moira de Swardt posting from Johannesburg, South Africa
Remove the dot in my address to find me at home.
Skokkie - 18 Mar 2006 17:22 GMT
> "Skokkie" <Glenton@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> It's not even intellectual posturing.  It's garbage.

Junk Science is the word that best describes it ! I have never heard such an
immutable mixture of philosophy, folktale and semi qualified scientific
approaches as I have heard from the AIDS denialists.
Iconoclaster - 19 Mar 2006 02:58 GMT
>"Junk Science is the word that best describes it ! I have never heard such
an immutable mixture of philosophy, folktale and semi qualified scientific

approaches as I have heard from the AIDS denialists."

You wouldn't know science if they hit you over the head with the "Handbook
of Chemistry and Physics", Skokiaan.  But you must be a member of TAC...
And let me remark here, for the whole world to see, that TAC is a paid
front for the pharmaceutical industry.  So sue me.
GMCarter - 19 Mar 2006 12:44 GMT
>>"Junk Science is the word that best describes it ! I have never heard such
>an immutable mixture of philosophy, folktale and semi qualified scientific
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>And let me remark here, for the whole world to see, that TAC is a paid
>front for the pharmaceutical industry.  So sue me.

LOL...there's no evidence for that to begin with. Of course, that
jackass Rath, as you allude here, was found guilty of libel, making
this kind of charge.

So, as ever, you spread lies when you have nothing else.

        George M. Carter
Iconoclaster - 23 Mar 2006 02:37 GMT
>"Of course, that jackass Rath, as you allude here, was found guilty of
libel, making this kind of charge."

Yes, I'm aware that Dr. Mathias Rath has been enjoyned by a court to say
that TAC IS A FRONT ORGANIZATION FUNDED BY THE PHARMA INDISTRY.  So I
presume, he isn't saying that anymore.  But I do. And if they drag me into
court, there will be dozens of others in my place who will be saying the
same thing.  Because it's true.  TAC is a gang of thugs.
Chris Noble - 23 Mar 2006 10:50 GMT
> >"Of course, that jackass Rath, as you allude here, was found guilty of
> libel, making this kind of charge."
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> court, there will be dozens of others in my place who will be saying the
> same thing.  Because it's true.  TAC is a gang of thugs.

Rath had his chance in court to provide evidence that TAC is a front
organisation for the pharmaceutical companies. If he had evidence he
would have provided it. He doesn't have evidence only slime and lots of
it.

Reminds me of ... you.

Chris Noble

PS. Rath hasn't been found guilty of libel  - yet. The libel case is
still pending. He has had an injunction to stop him making further
libellous statements. He hasn't stopped yet.

PPS. Where does Rath get all of his money from?
Gary Stein - 23 Mar 2006 21:25 GMT
> PPS. Where does Rath get all of his money from?

From his snake oil sales..................

Gary Stein
Chris Noble - 24 Mar 2006 09:14 GMT
> > PPS. Where does Rath get all of his money from?
> >
> From his snake oil sales..................
>
> Gary Stein

Naaah. Snake oil? He's found the cure for cancer, heart disease and
AIDS. Perhaps more.

His "Snake oil" saved the life of Dominik Feld. He cured Dominik. The
tumour had completely disappeared from his body (ignore autopsy results
from pharmaceutical company flunkies).

Rath has the cure for cancer. Dominik proved this. It is only the
pharmaceutical company that is attempting to hide the truth. Rath isn't
interested in the money.  The products that he sells have only a modest
markup of 10000% to cover postage and handling.

You can see the truth about Mathias Rath by reading this webpage.
http://www4.dr-rath-foundation.org/THE_FOUNDATION/freedom.html

Chris Noble
Iconoclaster - 25 Apr 2006 01:13 GMT
>"Rath had his chance in court to provide evidence that TAC is a front
organisation for the pharmaceutical companies. If he had evidence he
would have provided it."

The Justice Dept. had its chance in court to provide evidence that Al
Capone was a mafia don. All they got him for was tax evasion.

The allegation that TAC is a front organisation for the pharmaceutical
companies (which it is)was the ONLY point on which the court did not side
with Dr. Rath.  Elsewhere on this board, one of you pharma phlunkies has
published the complete court decision.  Check it out.
Sean McHugh - 25 Apr 2006 01:35 GMT
> >"Rath had his chance in court to provide evidence that TAC is a front
> organisation for the pharmaceutical companies. If he had evidence he
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> with Dr. Rath.  Elsewhere on this board, one of you pharma phlunkies has
> published the complete court decision.  Check it out.

Why do you keep snipping the attributions?
Iconoclaster - 26 Apr 2006 00:59 GMT
>"Why do you keep snipping the attributions?"

Because I didn't feel like looking for who posted it.
You've seen one pharma phlunkie, you've seen them all.
Gary Stein - 03 May 2006 20:49 GMT
>> >"Rath had his chance in court to provide evidence that TAC is a front
>> organisation for the pharmaceutical companies. If he had evidence he
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Why do you keep snipping the attributions?

The moron Iconoclaster uses a non-standard newsreader that is incapable of
properly formatting Usenet postings. He is not snipping the attributions
manually his inadequate software simple does not include them in his
postings.

Not only is he ignorant about HIV but is also an idiot when it comes to
choosing software.

Gary Stein
GMCarter - 24 Mar 2006 00:10 GMT
>>"Of course, that jackass Rath, as you allude here, was found guilty of
>libel, making this kind of charge."
>
>Yes, I'm aware that Dr. Mathias Rath has been enjoyned by a court to say
>that TAC IS A FRONT ORGANIZATION FUNDED BY THE PHARMA INDISTRY.  So I
>presume, he isn't saying that anymore.  But I do.

Of course you do. Because, despite a high court finding this to be
untrue, you don't mind spreading lies.

It's what any good little denialist will do!

        George M. Carter
Peter H.M. Brooks - 18 Mar 2006 00:33 GMT
>> "Alex" <avdeelen.REMOFETHIS1@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
>>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> will I glance at my screen and see real human beings, starve to death right
> in front of my eyes." Gilbert o'Sullivan - sometime during the 1960's

It'd be Bonaparte brandy.

I do think plebvision obscene. Its innoculation against the horror of
people dying is just one of its obscenities.
Skokkie - 18 Mar 2006 17:18 GMT
>>> "Alex" <avdeelen.REMOFETHIS1@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>> the 1960's
> It'd be Bonaparte brandy.

I remember having this discussion about 30 years ago and the consensus was
that he actually sang the word Shandy.

> I do think plebvision obscene. Its innoculation against the horror of
> people dying is just one of its obscenities.

The song was a similar inoculation - it is called Recreational Grief -
amongst other things
Peter H.M. Brooks - 19 Mar 2006 09:39 GMT
>>>> "Alex" <avdeelen.REMOFETHIS1@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> I remember having this discussion about 30 years ago and the consensus was
> that he actually sang the word Shandy.

So the error was his - understandable.

>> I do think plebvision obscene. Its innoculation against the horror of
>> people dying is just one of its obscenities.
>
> The song was a similar inoculation - it is called Recreational Grief -
> amongst other things

I hadn't known that. A nicely ironic title, I must concur.
Skokkie - 19 Mar 2006 15:48 GMT
>>>>> "Alex" <avdeelen.REMOFETHIS1@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>> amongst other things
> I hadn't known that. A nicely ironic title, I must concur.

Grief Lite, Recreational grief, Mourning Sickness, Conspicuous Compassion,
Tragedy Tourism, Guilt Tripping - I am surprised that you have not heard of
these terms Peter.

Most were evolved by a British civil society think tank called Civitas. They
describe the spindoctoring that surrounds a government's strategy to
attenuate the emotional critical mass of the citizenry and thereby render
them placid and manageable. Joe Public feels that he has done something from
the comfort of his living room and does not therefore have to engage in
further decisive or effective action.

The local ANC propaganda machine uses it quite extensively.

Google chucked up the following articles:
___________________________________________________________

'Mourning sickness is a religion'

Britons are feeding their own egos by indulging in "recreational grief" for
murdered children and dead celebrities they have never met, claims a report.

Think-tank Civitas said wearing charity ribbons, holding silences and
joining protest marches all indicated the country was in emotional crisis.
The author said "mourning sickness" was a substitute for religion.
Rather than "piling up damp teddies and rotting flowers" people should go
out and do some real good, he urged.
In his report, Conspicuous Compassion, author Patrick West said people were
trying to feel better about themselves by taking part in "manufactured
emotion".

'Phoney'
Describing extravagant public displays of grief for strangers as
'grief-lite' Mr West said these activities were, "undertaken as an enjoyable
event, much like going to a football match or the last night of the proms".
"Mourning sickness is a religion for the lonely crowd that no longer
subscribes to orthodox churches. Its flowers and teddies are its rites, its
collective minutes' silences its liturgy and mass.
"But these new bonds are phoney, ephemeral and cynical," he said.
"We saw this at its most ghoulish after the demise of Diana. In truth,
mourners were not crying for her, but for themselves," he wrote.
Years later, he claimed, "Diana had served her purpose. The public had moved
on. These recreational grievers were now emoting about Jill Dando, Linda
McCartney or the Soham girls."
His 80-page pamphlet said that while the Soham murders were "unquestionably
tragic", it was "almost as distressing to see sections of the public jumping
on the grief bandwagon".

He said the traditional minute's silence has suffered "compassion inflation"
and become meaningless.
"They are getting longer and we are having more of them, because we want to
be seen to care."
"When a group called Hedgeline calls for a two-minute silence to remember
all the 'victims' whose neighbours have grown towering hedges, we truly have
reached the stage where this gesture has been emptied of meaning," he added.

Moving on to the wearing of charity ribbons, the report said the act served
to "celebrate the culture of victimhood" and was an egotistical gesture to
announce "I care".
The trend had not been accompanied by a tangible increase in charity
donations, it added, and there was now an "unspoken competition" to see who
could wear their Remembrance Day poppy earliest, "particularly among
politicians".
And on going on demonstrations, the report said it was "too often an
exercise in attention-seeking".
"Next time you profess that you "care" about something, consider your
motives and the consequences of your words and actions. Sometimes, the only
person you really care about is you," said the report.
Civitas, also known as the Institute for the Study of Civil Society, was
launched in 2000 as an independent registered charity.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/uk/3512447.stm

Published: 2004/02/23 08:05:12 GMT

© BBC MMVI
________________________________________________________

World AIDS day statement by Mrs Jo-Ann Downs, Deputy President of the ACDP

As we mark yet another World AIDS day it is time for South Africa to face
reality. The recent release of statistics show that the pandemic is neither
declining nor are treatment figures anywhere near optimum, yet every year we
have candle lighting ceremonies expensive lunches and other high finance
awareness programs. These events are known to have little effect on the
actual plight of the sufferers as they represent an aspect of spin doctoring
recently identified by British think tank "Civitas" as "conspicuous
compassion" or "grief lite" that lulls many public office bearers into
inaction. Grief lite is about feeling good but not about doing good. We must
stop using red ribbons as a campaign rosette. It is time the government
realized that it is utterly ridiculous to continue to do the same things and
expect to get a different result. The current publicity orientated
prevention and education campaigns have made absolutely no difference. Anti
retroviral rollout is pathetic when considering the number of people who
need to be treated.

This can all be personified in one little 4 year old girl whose CD4 count is
less than 100. I met her at the tree clinic where we noted that she was
extremely ill, running a high temperature and in pain. The local clinic
declined to treat her with antibiotics, which she desperately needed. She
was sent home with nothing more than a dose of paracetamol. History will
judge the government harshly for its lack of foresight in dealing with the
worst health crisis we have ever faced in our country. It is the plight of
this small child that represents AIDS awareness to me, not the big public
"mourning sickness" campaigns. I am so angry on behalf of this small child,
she deserves much better. If you would like to help her, she lives within 10
km of your home, wherever you are in South Africa. A visit to her would be
more productive than listening to a band in the park.
Alex - 17 Mar 2006 18:29 GMT
> "Alex" <avdeelen.REMOFETHIS1@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> You've always spoken rubbish,

I disagree...

> but this is at least the second time
> you've posted this particular rubbish.  Posting it again doesn't
> make it any more valid the second time round.

That was two weeks ago, and I haven't heard an
intelligent (or otherwise) rebuttal of Rebecca Culshaw's
points yet.

Alex
RJ - 17 Mar 2006 18:24 GMT
Alex, this person clearly does not understand human immunology. The
fact that it's difficult to model the effects of a virus that infects
CD4 T cells is because we don't know how our billions of CD4 T cells
(in all their many phenotypic varieties) are maintained in the body
under "normal" conditions. This oft-repeated idea that an inability to
fully understand HIV pathogenesis says something about causation is
nonsensical. TB has been around since the Egypations, why don't you go
do some research and see how well we understand TB pathogenesis?

And, as has been said before, cytopathicity is in no way required for
HIV to cause disease, the single most important correlate of disease
progression is the level of immune activation and activated T cells die
in 1-2 days anyway. Take a look at the review by Zvi Grossman et al in
the new Nature Medicine.
Iconoclaster - 19 Mar 2006 03:26 GMT
Ah! Richard Jefferys again!  More hot air.  Well it's good that I'm just in
the mood to kick the dog. But I don't have a dog, and even if I did, I
wouldn't do such a thing to a poor innocent animal.  So I'm really
grateful you came around.

>"The
fact that it's difficult to model the effects of a virus that infects CD4
T cells is because we don't know how our billions of CD4 T cells (in all
their many phenotypic varieties) are maintained in the body under "normal"
conditions."

Right, we don't (yet).

>"This oft-repeated idea that an inability to
fully understand HIV pathogenesis says something about causation is
nonsensical.

Is that your way of diverting attention from the fact that the causation
of AIDS by HIV has never even remotely been proven?  Even for the
existence of HIV all proof is lacking.  So why don't the immunologists
stick with their trade and study T-cells.  They have done good work so
far, considering that immunology is a young science.
Meanwhile, we denialists will keep on hitting the virologists over the
head, and exposing their frauds.

>"the single most important correlate of disease
progression is the level of immune activation and activated T cells die in
1-2 days anyway. "

Right.  And how this life cycle of T-cells can be influenced is a good
research field in itself.  You don't have to drag HIV, or any virus, real
or fictonal into the discussion.
Under certain circumstances, levels of CD4+ T-cells go down, probably as a
result of a shortened life span.  Please, immunologists, find out what
causes this.  Results thus far have failed to indicate that low levels of
T-cells have anything to do with sickness.  But we need to know more about
this.  And leave the virologists and the pharmacologists to us.  We'll
slaughter them, because they have been selling us bullshit for 20 years.
At very high prices, in money and human lives.
GMCarter - 19 Mar 2006 12:44 GMT
>Ah! Richard Jefferys again!  More hot air.  

Again...nothing to offer in reply to Richard's cogent comments.

No surprise.
RJ - 19 Mar 2006 15:35 GMT
"Right.  And how this life cycle of T-cells can be influenced is a good

research field in itself.  You don't have to drag HIV, or any virus,
real
or fictonal into the discussion."

Well, if you're an immunologist interested in studing what T cells are
targeting, then this weird thing happens where if you look at T cell
responses in people that test positive on the antibody test for HIV,
you find that many of their CD4 and CD8 T cells are targeting the
proteins encoded by the HIV genome. And the immunological consequences
of HIV infection are unique (with the exception of HIV-2) and are not
paralleled by ICL, malnutrition, etc.

Which is why there aren't exactly throngs of immunologists on your
side, Iconwhoever - maybe you can tell us which immunologists share
your views?
Iconoclaster - 23 Mar 2006 03:08 GMT
>"Well, if you're an immunologist interested in studing what T cells are
targeting, then this weird thing happens where if you look at T cell
responses in people that test positive on the antibody test for HIV,"

Just coincidental.  I'll bet the same weird thing with T-cell reponses
happens in people who have had bacon and eggs for breakfast.
My point was that the immunologists are doing good work in their own
field, and they should not get waylaid by not-too-bright virologists.

>"you find that many of their CD4 and CD8 T cells are targeting the
proteins encoded by the HIV genome."

That illustrates my point!  How do you know these proteins are encoded by
the HIV genome?  Some pseudo-scientists must have told you that, and you
fell for it.  HIV has never been isolated and shown to the world, so how
can they claim to have sequenced its genome?  So my advice still stands:
Immunologists, do your own research.  Don't trust virologists born after
1946.
I am not an immunologist, but about viruses I do know.  And I'll deal with
the corrupt bunch of virologists.  Meanwhile I'll watch with considerable
interest what the immunologists come up with, as long as they ignore the
fairytales from outside their profession.
RJ - 23 Mar 2006 18:12 GMT
You're out of your tiny mind. Go find an immunologist and ask them.
Bacon & Eggs can suddenly induce T cell responses to multiple epitopes
from nine retroviral proteins!! Of course! Don't you believe Peter
Duesberg's proof of the existence of HIV? Any other retroviruses you
want to consign to the land of fantasy in which you reside? MLV, FIV,
SIVsm, SIVmrd, SIVcpz, SIVagm, etc., etc, etc.

What do you do for fun, just out of curiosity? (when not putting the
fear into corrupt virologists with your fiercesome missives to
misc.health.aids, which we all know they read every day in trembling
anticipation...)
Iconoclaster - 26 Apr 2006 01:11 GMT
>"Bacon & Eggs can suddenly induce T cell responses to multiple epitopes
from nine retroviral proteins!!"

How do you know they're retroviral proteins?

>"Don't you believe Peter Duesberg's proof of the existence of HIV?"

No.  I don't even believe he was erious when he claimed the prize.

>"Any other retroviruses you want to consign to the land of fantasy in
which you reside? MLV, FIV,
SIVsm, SIVmrd, SIVcpz, SIVagm, etc., etc, etc."

Not necessarily.  Only the retroviruses that lead to big money.  Oh... and
I think SHIV is bullshit too.
Moira de Swardt - 17 Mar 2006 21:47 GMT
"Alex" <avdeelen.REMOFETHIS1@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
> "Moira de Swardt" <moira.ds@wol.co.za> schreef in bericht
> > "Alex" <avdeelen.REMOFETHIS1@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message

> > > I've always said it, but the epidemiology of HIV/AIDS, especially
> > in Africa
> > > does not make sense.

> > You've always spoken rubbish,

> I disagree...

You would, wouldn't you?  But that doesn't mean you *don't* speak
rubbish.

> > but this is at least the second time
> > you've posted this particular rubbish.  Posting it again doesn't
> > make it any more valid the second time round.

> That was two weeks ago, and I haven't heard an
> intelligent (or otherwise) rebuttal of Rebecca Culshaw's
> points yet.

Why?  Don't you read all the responses to your posts?  Amongst
others Carter responded intelligently pointing out Culshaw's
inaccuracies and flawed thinking.

--
Moira de Swardt posting from Johannesburg, South Africa
Remove the dot in my address to find me at home.
a_f_r_i_e_n_d@hotmail.com - 19 Mar 2006 01:47 GMT
Hi Alex

Distinctions of HIV and AIDS are pretty much unimportant for me. As are
the diseases/illness that are included or exluded under the term AIDS.

HIV is a self-defeating virus. When a person is infected and if the
virus is robust, the host will die and the virus will die with the
host.

Where we disagree is that on the spread of the virus. The spread of the
virus takes place because of sociopolitical reasons. We live in
cultures with "rights" to sex, marriage, children, etc. Those who have
the grave misfortune of being infected then go about the task of
spreading the virus. The virus would die with the host without OUR
actions. We cause the spread of deadly virus that has killed millions.
This isn't the virus' doing.
Alex - 19 Mar 2006 02:28 GMT
> Hi Alex
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> actions. We cause the spread of deadly virus that has killed millions.
> This isn't the virus' doing.

The problem is that I don't think that a heterosexual HIV epidemic
in Africa only can be explained by just different sexual practices
(and I don't think they are different at all).

And of course, Nancy Padian has done at least two studies that
showed that rates of transmission were no different in Africa than
in the West.

Padian, N. and Pickering, J., "Female-to-male transmission of
AIDS: a re-examination of the African sex ratio of cases",
JAMA 256:590

Padian, N.S., Shiboski, S.C., Glass, S.O., Vittinghoff, E.
(1997), "Heterosexual transmission of human immunodeficiency virus
(HIV) in northern California: Results from a ten-year study", Am. J.
Epidemiol. 146:350-357.
a_f_r_i_e_n_d@hotmail.com - 19 Mar 2006 05:58 GMT
So, what is your suspicion Alex?

Heterosexual or homosexual, when a virus is present in blood and other
humans products, humans become the carriers of the virus. As I pointed
out, and to which you didn't respond. A robust virus such as HIV will
die off with the host -- assuming the carrier makes a choice not to
transmit the virus to others.
Alex - 21 Mar 2006 19:05 GMT
> So, what is your suspicion Alex?
>
> Heterosexual or homosexual, when a virus is present in blood and other
> humans products, humans become the carriers of the virus. As I pointed
> out, and to which you didn't respond.

It's a nonsequitor. If you believe a virus is infectious for people,
you will believe that people will be infected with it.

> A robust virus such as HIV will
> die off with the host -- assuming the carrier makes a choice not to
> transmit the virus to others.

Since when is HIV robust? It can barely survive outside of the body.

There is almost no heterosexual transmission of HIV in the West.
Even between couples where one of the parthers is infected
with HIV (serodiscordant couples, sea Nancy Padian's article).

Again, I am not arguing that HIV doesn't exist, or that it
isn't infectious, but I do want to know the answer to the following:

1) There is no rational reason why Africa would be the only continent
with a heterosexual HIV epidemic.

2) HIV surveys, especially the ANC, but also the DHS in as far
as it does not use confirmation testing (like Western Blot) are
inaccurate ways to determine national infection rates, and by
definition will always overestimate national infection rates.

3) The dramatic infection rates predicted by ANC survesy
ARE NOT REFLECTED in massive the population growth
in the very same countries.

Alex

Padian, N. and Pickering, J., "Female-to-male transmission of
AIDS: a re-examination of the African sex ratio of cases",
JAMA 256:590

Padian, N.S., Shiboski, S.C., Glass, S.O., Vittinghoff, E.
(1997), "Heterosexual transmission of human immunodeficiency virus
(HIV) in northern California: Results from a ten-year study", Am. J.
Epidemiol. 146:350-357.
GMCarter - 21 Mar 2006 23:46 GMT
>> So, what is your suspicion Alex?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>It's a nonsequitor. If you believe a virus is infectious for people,
>you will believe that people will be infected with it.

Ah, so what do you believe?

>> A robust virus such as HIV will
>> die off with the host -- assuming the carrier makes a choice not to
>> transmit the virus to others.
>
>Since when is HIV robust? It can barely survive outside of the body.

Since when are a lot of pathogens robust? That's a non sequitur
criterion. And actually, HIV can survive outside the body. Just
depends on the conditions....e.g., a used syringe....

>There is almost no heterosexual transmission of HIV in the West.

Nonsense. You haven't been keeping up with the data.

Snipped the rest of the dithering....

        George M. Carter
Iconoclaster - 23 Mar 2006 02:51 GMT
>"And actually, HIV can survive outside the body. Just depends on the
conditions....e.g., a used syringe...."

Oh, I see... Can you show us then, Mr. Carter, where they have isolated
HIV from used syringes?
GMCarter - 24 Mar 2006 00:21 GMT
>>"And actually, HIV can survive outside the body. Just depends on the
>conditions....e.g., a used syringe...."
>
>Oh, I see... Can you show us then, Mr. Carter, where they have isolated
>HIV from used syringes?

Aside from the almost irresistible urge to find one and jab your sorry
f.cking a.s with it, it does not surprise me that you are so
completely inept and incompetent that you couldn't find those data for
yourself.

Just a couple to get you started...

        George M. Carter

**
Aust N Z J Public Health. 2003 Dec;27(6):602-7.     Related
Articles, Links

   Blood-borne viruses and their survival in the environment: is
public concern about community needlestick exposures justified?

   Thompson SC, Boughton CR, Dore GJ.

   Sexual Health and Blood-borne Virus Program, Communicable Diseases
Control Branch, Department of Health, Perth, Western Australia.
sandra.thompson@iinet.net.au

   BACKGROUND: More than 30 million needle syringes are distributed
per year in Australia as a component of harm-reduction strategies for
injecting drug users (IDU). Discarded needle syringes create
considerable anxiety within the community, but the extent of
needlestick injuries and level of blood-borne virus transmission risk
is unclear. We have undertaken a review of studies of blood-borne
virus survival as the basis for advice and management of community
needlestick injuries. METHODS: A Medline review of published articles
on blood-borne virus survival and outcome from community injuries.
RESULTS: Hepatitis B virus (HBV), hepatitis C virus (HCV) and human
immunodeficiency virus (HIV) can all survive outside the human body
for several weeks, with virus survival influenced by virus titer,
volume of blood, ambient temperature, exposure to sunlight and
humidity. HBV has the highest virus titers in untreated individuals
and is viable for the most prolonged periods in needle syringes stored
at room temperature. However, prevalence of HBV and HIV are only 1-2%
within the Australian IDU population. In contrast, prevalence of HCV
is 50-60% among Australian IDUs and virus survival in needle syringes
has been documented for prolonged periods. There have been no
published cases of blood-borne virus transmission following community
needlestick injury in Australia. CONCLUSION: The risk of blood-borne
virus transmission from syringes discarded in community settings
appears to be very low. Despite this, procedures to systematically
follow up individuals following significant needlestick exposures
sustained in the community setting should be developed.

**
Bull World Health Organ. 1999;77(10):808-11.     Related Articles,
Links

   The cost of unsafe injections.

   Miller MA, Pisani E.

   Children's Vaccine Initiative, Geneva, Switzerland.
millermark@who.ch

   Unsafe injection practices are associated with substantial
morbidity and mortality, particularly from hepatitis B and C and human
immunodeficiency virus (HIV) infections. These inadvertently
transmitted bloodborne diseases become manifest some considerable time
after infection and hence may not be appropriately accounted for.
Annually more than 1.3 million deaths and US$ 535 million are
estimated to be due to current unsafe injection practices. With the
global increase in the number of injections for vaccination and
medical services, safer injecting technologies such as auto-disable
syringes must be budgeted for. Investment in health education and
safer disposal will also reduce infections associated with unsafe
injecting practices. Safer injecting practices are more expensive than
current less safe practices, but the additional cost is more than
offset by the reduction in disease that would result.

   PIP: Unsafe injection practices, defined as the use of
unsterilized injection equipment in patients, are linked with
substantial morbidity and mortality in certain bloodborne diseases
including hepatitis B and C infections, as well as infection with HIV.
It is estimated that over 1.3 million lives are lost annually as a
result of unsafe injection practices and more than US$535 million is
spent each year to treat emerging bloodborne diseases. With the
significant increases in the number of injections for immunization and
medical services globally, safer injecting technologies such as the
use of auto-disable syringes and oral aerosol or oral formulations
must be considered. Likewise, investment in health education and
promoting safe, convenient, and effective disposal of injection
equipment will also decrease infections associated with unsafe
injection practices. Finally, although safer injecting technologies
are more costly than the existing less safe practices, the additional
cost is more than offset by the resultant decrease in bloodborne
diseases.
RJ - 21 Mar 2006 23:49 GMT
"1) There is no rational reason why Africa would be the only continent
with a heterosexual HIV epidemic."

There is, actually, it's called immune activation. Africa, being the
Equatorial seat-of-all-life that it is, has the greatest pathogen
diversity and living there is associated with higher levels of immune
activation. Immune activation is known to significantly increase
susceptibility to HIV infection (e.g. in the setting of genital STDs).
I'm not saying this is proven but it's certainly rational.

AIDS. 2000 Sep 29;14(14):2083-92.

Immune activation in africa is environmentally-driven and is associated
with upregulation of CCR5. Italian-Ugandan AIDS Project.

Clerici M, Butto S, Lukwiya M, Saresella M, Declich S, Trabattoni D,
Pastori C, Piconi S, Fracasso C, Fabiani M, Ferrante P, Rizzardini G,
Lopalco L.

Cattedra di Immunologia, Universita di Milano, Italy.

BACKGROUND: HIV infection in Africa is associated with immune
activation and a cytokine profile that stimulates CCR5 expression. We
investigated whether this immune activation is environmentally driven;
if a dominant expression of CCR5 could indeed be detected in African
individuals; and if R5 HIV strains would be prevalent in this
population. METHODS: Freshly drawn peripheral blood mononuclear cells
from HIV-uninfected African and Italian individuals living in rural
Africa, from HIV-uninfected Africans and Italians living in Italy, and
from HIV-infected African and Italian patients were analysed.
Determinations of HIV coreceptor-specific mRNAs and immunophenotype
analyses were performed in all samples. Virological analyses included
virus isolation and characterization of plasma neutralizing activity.
FINDINGS: Results showed that: immune activation is detected both in
Italian and African HIV-uninfected individuals living in Africa but not
in African subjects living in Italy; CCR5-specific mRNA is augmented
and the surface expression of CCR5 is increased in African compared
with Italian residents (CXCR4-specific mRNA is comparable); R5-HIV
strains are isolated prevalently from lymphocytes of African
HIV-infected patients; and plasma neutralizing activity in HIV-infected
African patients is mostly specific for R5 strains. CONCLUSIONS: Immune
activation in African residents is environmentally driven and not
genetically predetermined. This immune activation results in a skewing
of the CCR5 : CXCR4 ratio which is associated with a prevalent
isolation of R5 viruses. These data suggest that the selection of the
predominant virus strain within the population could be influenced by
an immunologically driven pattern of HIV co receptor expression.
a_f_r_i_e_n_d@hotmail.com - 22 Mar 2006 13:35 GMT
Hi RJ

I don't think this study addresses Alex's concern.

The issue that Alex seems to be troubled by is why men in Africa seem
vulnerable and men in the US aren't. IOW, what is different about
African and American men?

Or, how does a virus that seemingly is difficult to transmit to a male
in one country, is more easily transmissible to a male in another
country.

The answer is partially in looking at what the men who are infected in
both nations share.
Alex - 28 Mar 2006 13:50 GMT
> Hi RJ
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> vulnerable and men in the US aren't. IOW, what is different about
> African and American men?

Specifically what baffles me is the required ease with which
men in Africa must be infected by women, which is a requirement
for a heterosexual epidemic.

This does not seem to be repeated in the West, and according
to Nancy Padian's studies, doesn't seem to be observed in Africa
either.

Alex

Padian, N. and Pickering, J., "Female-to-male transmission of
AIDS: a re-examination of the African sex ratio of cases",
JAMA 256:590
GMCarter - 29 Mar 2006 00:41 GMT
>> Hi RJ
>>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>to Nancy Padian's studies, doesn't seem to be observed in Africa
>either.

Oh bullshit on both counts. I can't BELIEVE you have the gall or
stupidity to raise the Padian study. Her work does NOT support either
statement above.

Such outright disingenuousness isn't merely ignorance. It's f.cking
lying. Like Bush.

        George M. Carter

>Padian, N. and Pickering, J., "Female-to-male transmission of
>AIDS: a re-examination of the African sex ratio of cases",
>JAMA 256:590
Iconoclaster - 01 Apr 2006 01:48 GMT
Ah!  I seee a whole sequence only featuring Messrs. Carter, Noble, Stein,
and Jeffery.
That means the joint output has to be a little too one-sided. About time I
got a few words in.

Your remarks are, as usual, way off the mark, Mr. Carter.  Just claiming
the Padian study doesn't support the lack of heterosexual transmission of
"HIV" (even if it existed) does not mean your belief is correct.
And for the life of me, I don't see what Bush has to do with it.
GMCarter - 01 Apr 2006 11:44 GMT
>Ah!  I seee a whole sequence only featuring Messrs. Carter, Noble, Stein,
>and Jeffery.
>That means the joint output has to be a little too one-sided. About time I
>got a few words in.

More dead denialists?

>Your remarks are, as usual, way off the mark, Mr. Carter.  Just claiming
>the Padian study doesn't support the lack of heterosexual transmission of
>"HIV" (even if it existed) does not mean your belief is correct.

True.  The same can most certainly be said of your inane blatherings.

Here's a good debate about it, which underscores the intellectual
bankruptcy of denialist cant:
http://scienceblogs.com/aetiology/2006/02/discussion_of_the_padian_paper.php

>And for the life of me, I don't see what Bush has to do with it.

Re-read it.
Sean McHugh - 08 Apr 2006 05:09 GMT


> >Ah!  I seee a whole sequence only featuring Messrs. Carter, Noble,
> >Stein, and Jeffery. That means the joint output has to be a little
> >too one-sided. About time I got a few words in.

> More dead denialists?

> >Your remarks are, as usual, way off the mark, Mr. Carter.  Just claiming
> >the Padian study doesn't support the lack of heterosexual transmission of
> >"HIV" (even if it existed) does not mean your belief is correct.

> True.  The same can most certainly be said of your inane blatherings.

> Here's a good debate about it, which underscores the intellectual
> bankruptcy of denialist cant:

> <http://scienceblogs.com/aetiology/2006/02/discussion_of_the_padian_paper.php>

I'm rather surprised that you would draw attention to that page.

So Mr. Carter, do you think the Padian study obtained the expected
results? What do you think the results _did_ suggest?

<http://cleveland.staughton.indypgh.org/news/2004/03/9810.php>

` STRAIGHT AIDS MYTH SHATTERED

` New York Post
` March 19, 2004 --

` THE public health experts - and their amen corner in the media -
` owe Helen Gurley Brown an apology.

` The legendary Cosmopolitan editor was vilified in 1993 when she
` published a piece called "The Myth of Heterosexual AIDS." But
` she was right.

` Eleven years later, Details is asking: "Whatever Happened to AIDS
` and Straight Men?" The article states, "A disease-free man who has
` unprotected sex with a drug-free woman stands a one in 5 million
` chance of contracting HIV." The story by Kevin Gray also cites a
` joke that made the rounds of the New York City Department of
` Health as statistics came in showing that the predicted spread of
` AIDS to heterosexuals wasn't happening:
` "What do you call a man who got HIV from his girlfriend? . . . A
` liar." "I feel somewhat vindicated," Brown told PAGE SIX.

Best Regards,

Sean McHugh

-
Chris Noble - 29 Mar 2006 03:47 GMT
> > Hi RJ
> >
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> AIDS: a re-examination of the African sex ratio of cases",
> JAMA 256:590

These are estimates. The estimates were based on two cases of
transmission. Padian had trouble finding discordant couples where the
female was positive and the male was monogamous. More men seroconverted
but were not monogamous and could not be used to estimate transmission
risk.

Don't treat estimates as if they were rock solid.

In addition Padian noted that one of the females reported bleeding at
the time. It is likely that genital ulceration and similar conditions
also raise the amount of virus that is shed and increase transmission
risk..

Chris Noble
Iconoclaster - 25 Apr 2006 01:22 GMT
>"Don't treat estimates as if they were rock solid."

No-o-o-o, that's right.  We've seen that with the estimates of AIDS deaths
in Africa.

>"In addition Padian noted that one of the females reported bleeding at
the time. It is likely that genital ulceration and similar conditions also
raise the amount of virus that is shed and increase transmission risk.."

Ah, is that right, Mr. Noble...  A bleeding ulceration... Yes, that must
be a virus, right?
<grmpfft!>
So from that blood they must have isolated lots of HIV particles then...
Front-page news.
Alex - 28 Mar 2006 19:04 GMT
> "1) There is no rational reason why Africa would be the only continent
> with a heterosexual HIV epidemic."
>
> There is, actually, it's called immune activation. Africa, being the
> Equatorial seat-of-all-life that it is,

As are the Amazon region in South America, or the tropical regions of
Asia...

> has the greatest pathogen
> diversity and living there is associated with higher levels of immune
> activation. Immune activation is known to significantly increase
> susceptibility to HIV infection (e.g. in the setting of genital STDs).

But that is circular logic. And it makes the "ALSO therefore BECAUSE OF"
mistake.

The problem with it is that there are a number of factors
that are known to cause false positive results - namely
immune activation - antibodies agains malaria, leprosy,
etc. can themselves cause false positive results in HIV
tests.

Most of these factors (especially antibodies against malaria,
of which 90% of cases occur in Africa) don't occur outside
of Africa.

Factors Known to Cause False-Positive HIV Antibody Test Results
(especially the ELISA screening test that is used for
screening in both ANC and DHS surveys):

* Anti-carbohydrate antibodies (52, 19, 13)
* Naturally-occurring antibodies (5, 19)
* Passive immunization: receipt of gamma globulin or immune globulin (as prophylaxis against
infection which contains antibodies)(18, 26, 60, 4, 22, 42, 43, 13)
* Leprosy (2, 25)
* Tuberculosis (25)
* Mycobacterium avium (25)
* Systemic lupus erythematosus (15, 23)
* Renal (kidney) failure (48, 23, 13)
* Hemodialysis/renal failure (56, 16, 41, 10, 49)
* Alpha interferon therapy in hemodialysis patients (54)
* Flu (36)
* Flu vaccination (30, 11, 3, 20, 13, 43)
* Herpes simplex I (27)
* Herpes simplex II (11)
* Upper respiratory tract infection (cold or flu)(11)
* Recent viral infection or exposure to viral vaccines (11)
* Pregnancy in multiparous women (58, 53, 13, 43, 36)
* Malaria (6, 12)
* High levels of circulating immune complexes (6, 33)
* Hypergammaglobulinemia (high levels of antibodies) (40, 33)
* False positives on other tests, including RPR (rapid plasma reagent) test for syphilis (17, 48,
33, 10, 49)
* Rheumatoid arthritis (36)
* Hepatitis B vaccination (28, 21, 40, 43)
* Tetanus vaccination (40)
* Organ transplantation (1, 36)
* Renal transplantation (35, 9, 48, 13, 56)
* Anti-lymphocyte antibodies (56, 31)
* Anti-collagen antibodies (found in gay men, haemophiliacs, Africans of both sexes and people with
leprosy)(31)
* Serum-positive for rheumatoid factor, antinuclear antibody (both found in rheumatoid arthritis and
other autoantibodies)(14, 62, 53)
* Autoimmune diseases (44, 29, 10, 40, 49, 43): Systemic lupus erythematosus, scleroderma,
connective tissue disease, dermatomyositis
* Acute viral infections, DNA viral infections (59, 48, 43, 53, 40, 13)
* Malignant neoplasms (cancers)(40)
* Alcoholic hepatitis/alcoholic liver disease (32, 48, 40,10,13, 49, 43, 53)
* Primary sclerosing cholangitis (48, 53)
* Hepatitis (54)
* "Sticky" blood (in Africans) (38, 34, 40)
* Antibodies with a high affinity for polystyrene (used in the test kits)(62, 40, 3)
* Blood transfusions, multiple blood transfusions (63, 36,13, 49, 43, 41)
* Multiple myeloma (10, 43, 53)
* HLA antibodies (to Class I and II leukocyte antigens)(7, 46, 63, 48, 10, 13, 49, 43, 53)
* Anti-smooth muscle antibody (48)
* Anti-parietal cell antibody (48)
* Anti-hepatitis A IgM (antibody)(48)
* Anti-Hbc IgM (48)
* Administration of human immunoglobulin preparations pooled before 1985 (10)
* Haemophilia (10, 49)
* Haematologic malignant disorders/lymphoma (43, 53, 9, 48, 13)
* Primary biliary cirrhosis (43, 53, 13, 48)
* Stevens-Johnson syndrome9, (48, 13)
* Q-fever with associated hepatitis (61)
* Heat-treated specimens (51, 57, 24, 49, 48)
* Lipemic serum (blood with high levels of fat or lipids)(49)
* Haemolyzed serum (blood where haemoglobin is separated from the red cells)(49)
* Hyperbilirubinemia (10, 13)
* Globulins produced during polyclonal gammopathies (which are seen in AIDS risk groups)(10, 13, 48)
* Healthy individuals as a result of poorly-understood cross-reactions (10)
* Normal human ribonucleoproteins (48,13)
* Other retroviruses (8, 55, 14, 48, 13)
* Anti-mitochondrial antibodies (48, 13)
* Anti-nuclear antibodies (48, 13, 53)
* Anti-microsomal antibodies (34)
* T-cell leukocyte antigen antibodies (48, 13)
* Proteins on the filter paper (13)
* Epstein-Barr virus (37)
* Visceral leishmaniasis (45)
* Receptive anal sex (39, 64)

References

http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/cjtestfp.htm

> I'm not saying this is proven but it's certainly rational.
>
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
> predominant virus strain within the population could be influenced by
> an immunologically driven pattern of HIV co receptor expression.

Wasn't there a claim years ago that CCR5 D-32 protected against
HIV infection? It was claimed that this gene was the reason why
there was no HIV epidemic in Europe. The problem with that
was that only 14% of Swedes, to 5% of Italians were protected
by it, which isn't enough to prevent an epidemic.

Alex
GMCarter - 29 Mar 2006 00:44 GMT
snip
>Factors Known to Cause False-Positive HIV Antibody Test Results
>(especially the ELISA screening test that is used for
>screening in both ANC and DHS surveys):

Wow. This has ALSO been thoroughly reviewed and discredited. There CAN
be some cross reactions--as is true with any test! But the list you
provide and its citations often show the contrary to what is claimed
or at the least an exaggeration.

Alex: you're not ignorant of this. You repeat the same lies.

Your credibility is absolutely nil.

        George M. Carter
RJ - 30 Mar 2006 20:27 GMT
"As are the Amazon region in South America, or the tropical regions of
Asia... "

No, they are not where life originated, that was Africa. Hence Africa
has the greatest genetic diversity of everything, from humans to bugs.
If you're Italian and living in Africa, your immune system will be in a
more activated state on an ongoing basis versus if you were living in
Rome. More activation = more CCR5 expressing T cells (CCR5 is
upregulated within hours of T cell activation) = equals more cellular
targets for HIV. It does not strike me as irrational to suggest that
increased cellular targets might lower the threshold for female to male
transmission, although it would be useful to study this in more detail.
This kind of analysis might be possible in the recent studies showing
that herpes suppression using acyclovir can reduce HIV transmission.
Iconoclaster - 26 Apr 2006 01:17 GMT
>"More activation = more CCR5 expressing T cells (CCR5 is upregulated
within hours of T cell activation) = equals more cellular targets for
HIV."

Yeah, and also more cellular targets for BBBB (the Big Bad Boogie Bug).
What strikes me is that every time you step out of the field of
immunology, you start spouting nonsense.
a_f_r_i_e_n_d@hotmail.com - 22 Mar 2006 13:18 GMT
Alex, the virus is robust within the host. When the host dies, so too
does the virus. You continue to evade the point.

As to your questions, you've generalized far too much. Africa is not
the issue. It is actually about 5 countries with very high adult
infection rates all within a specific geographic area of Africa.
Botswana, Tanzania, Zaire, etc. is the localized region with higher
concentrations of HIV infection. You are the one claiming that this is
a heterosexual pandemic. It's a problem of statistics. Even though the
US has a low national infection rate, the infections appear in
localized clusters.

Child infection rates are also, and in the localized region, present
where there is a high birth rate and total fertility rate allowing
transmission to children. Common factors include poverty, poor access
to health care and education, and behaviours that allow for the
exchange of a virus -- prostitution for example.

Your dedication to one study is noble, however, this overlooks
regional, political, cultural, behaviourial issues that would
contribute to the spread of a virus.

Now refresh my memory, but does the Padian study explore issues of
circumcision, genital ulcers, frequency with prostitutes that would
leave men more vulnerable to HIV in other settings? These issues, are
less of an issue by comparison in Western countries where poverty is
less of an issue. Abject poverty usually finds a higher incidence of
the sex trade which makes tranmission in the 5 major areas more likely.
Just as in New York and San Francisco prostitution is also more common
and contact with prostitutes more likely.

Unlike the US, Botswana and other nations with high incidence rates
also had legal prostitution. Any number of STD/Is create circumstances
for males that would at least allow a means for a virus to be
transmitted -- ulcers for example.
Alex - 28 Mar 2006 18:51 GMT
> Alex, the virus is robust within the host. When the host dies, so too
> does the virus. You continue to evade the point.
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> Unlike the US, Botswana and other nations with high incidence rates
> also had legal prostitution.

Sorry, but Holland and Denmark have legal prostitution. Famously so.
Again, no heterosexual HIV epidemic.

> Any number of STD/Is create circumstances
> for males that would at least allow a means for a virus to be
> transmitted -- ulcers for example.

I don't think that there was much to the theory that
other STDs act as a vector for HIV infection.

That was something that was floated years (decades?)
ago, but I haven't heard of it again.

Anyway, if ordinary STDs are the vector  for HIV
infection in Africa, then all that has to be done is
make antibiotics more freely available. However
again, I haven't heard this particular rationalisation
for a long time.

Alex
Iconoclaster - 19 Mar 2006 03:04 GMT
>"Why?  Don't you read all the responses to your posts?  Amongst others
Carter responded intelligently pointing out Culshaw's inaccuracies and
flawed thinking."

You don't get it, eh?  Our friend Carter is in a most unenviable position.
He cannot do anything else but sit there and address all the other posts.
He is a "pharma phlunkie".  Being on this board, without having a life of
his own, is his job.  He could not leave if he wanted to,.
GMCarter - 19 Mar 2006 12:46 GMT
>>"Why?  Don't you read all the responses to your posts?  Amongst others
>Carter responded intelligently pointing out Culshaw's inaccuracies and
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> He is a "pharma phlunkie".  Being on this board, without having a life of
>his own, is his job.  He could not leave if he wanted to,.

Darling, first, you are on here as much as I am. More perhaps.

Second, I do not take money from pharma.

Third, I am not paid to be here. I do it for fun.

Apparently, however, you who spend so much time here, feel that no one
would be here unless they were being paid. So who pays you?

The repugnicans? Neo-nazis?

        George M. Carter
Iconoclaster - 23 Mar 2006 02:42 GMT
>"Darling, first, you are on here as much as I am. More perhaps."

Not really.  I am here when I have time.  Care to compare numbers of
posts?
GMCarter - 24 Mar 2006 00:18 GMT
>>"Darling, first, you are on here as much as I am. More perhaps."
>
>Not really.  I am here when I have time.  Care to compare numbers of
>posts?

Feel free to, dear.

Meantime:
Apparently, however, you who spend so much time here, feel that no one
would be here unless they were being paid. So who pays you?

        George M. Carter
Brian Mailman - 24 Mar 2006 01:51 GMT
>>>"Darling, first, you are on here as much as I am. More perhaps."
>>
>>Not really.  I am here when I have time.  Care to compare numbers of
>>posts?
>
> Feel free to, dear.

ERF.... not good news, George.  55:34 this month...

http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.aids/about

Of course, counting up the Diablo socks, they beat both of you.

B/
GMCarter - 24 Mar 2006 13:32 GMT
>>>>"Darling, first, you are on here as much as I am. More perhaps."
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.aids/about

Cool! Make it 56!! Whee!!

I'm an all time top poster too from my old email.

And all these posts have got me a diamond tiara, 16 rolls royces, 45
Hope Diamonds and $16 billion!

What fun.

        George Mary
Brian Mailman - 25 Mar 2006 00:01 GMT
>>>>>"Darling, first, you are on here as much as I am. More perhaps."
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> What fun.

You forgot to mention that weekend with Jack Radcliffe <G>.

B/
GMCarter - 25 Mar 2006 00:51 GMT
>> And all these posts have got me a diamond tiara, 16 rolls royces, 45
>> Hope Diamonds and $16 billion!
>>
>> What fun.
>
>You forgot to mention that weekend with Jack Radcliffe <G>.

Ah...who?....er...I mean...you weren't supposed to tell!!
Iconoclaster - 19 Mar 2006 02:53 GMT
>"You've always spoken rubbish, but this is at least the second time you've
posted this particular rubbish.  Posting it again doesn't make it any more
valid the second time round."

Maybe it was necessary to post it again, because it obviously didn't get
through your thick skull, Moira.
alexiewing@aol.com - 20 Mar 2006 18:18 GMT
I am writing to let you know that I have registered for AIDS Walk New
York. This is a very important issue to me so I have set an ambitious
fundraising goal. I want to do as much as I can to make a difference in
the lives of men, women, and children affected by HIV and AIDS. Even
though there has been a lot of publicity about drug treatments which
are prolonging some people's lives, they don't work for everyone and
there is still no cure in sight. Moreover, young people are still
getting infected at alarmingly high rates.
AIDS Walk New York is the world's largest AIDS fundraising event.

https://www.kintera.org/faf/donorReg/donorPledge.asp?ievent=155828&supid=122276778

Thank you, in advance, for supporting this important cause and for
showing that you join me in wanting to end this epidemic.

(I posted to newsgroups that I believed would appreciate this. If I
have misposted to this newsgroup I am terribly sorry. Have a pleasant
day and god bless.)

> >"You've always spoken rubbish, but this is at least the second time you've
> posted this particular rubbish.  Posting it again doesn't make it any more
> valid the second time round."
>
> Maybe it was necessary to post it again, because it obviously didn't get
> through your thick skull, Moira.
a_f_r_i_e_n_d@hotmail.com - 21 Mar 2006 03:57 GMT
Could you broaden your scope alex to include those who are choosing to
infect others -- either by refusing testing, or once confirmed,
continue to infect others.

A young person cannot get infected unless they have sex with someone
who is infected.
GMCarter - 21 Mar 2006 12:24 GMT
>Could you broaden your scope alex to include those who are choosing to
>infect others -- either by refusing testing, or once confirmed,
>continue to infect others.
>
>A young person cannot get infected unless they have sex with someone
>who is infected.

And then when you're done with those, let's get them jews. And
then....
a_f_r_i_e_n_d@hotmail.com - 21 Mar 2006 14:20 GMT
Jews? What are you going on about George.

Your position allows those with a deadly virus to infect others who are
otherwise healthy. Your position allows those with a deadly virus and
with knowledge of that reality to conceal information and go about
spreading a pathogen throughout the gay community. Maybe after all us
gay folks have died off, you can go after them Jews.

Oddly, you seem prepared to protect the rights of the "shooter" but not
my rights to remain healthy and free from people who would otherwise
bring harm to me through a deadly infection.

Sick little world, you've crafted George. I guess if a few more of us
fags get the bug, its no big deal to you -- right, George? So much for
bigotry.
GMCarter - 21 Mar 2006 23:47 GMT
>Jews? What are you going on about George.
>
>Your position allows those with a deadly virus to infect others who are
>otherwise healthy. ....

What position?

Straw man, anyone? Running for president or something, anonymous nut
job?

        George M. Carter
a_f_r_i_e_n_d@hotmail.com - 22 Mar 2006 13:21 GMT
Ah, George.

That you snipped my post to avoid the question only makes you
intellectually dishonest in my view.

As I already pointed out, if a gay nurse or doctor were going around
poisoning or killing people, I'm sure your response would be different.
As I already pointed out, if a gay citizen were going around shooting
and stabbing gay people, I'm sure your response would be different.

Until you offer some other explanation for your position, I am left to
conclude that you are quite alright with gay men going around killing
other gay men with a deadly virus -- often times with the knowledge
that this is what they are doing.
GMCarter - 22 Mar 2006 13:30 GMT
>Ah, George.
>
>That you snipped my post to avoid the question only makes you
>intellectually dishonest in my view.

Like I give a sh.t about your view.
eponymous cowherd - 21 Apr 2006 23:33 GMT
> The epidemiology of HIV and AIDS is puzzling and unclear as well. In spite of
> the fact that AIDS
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> so rapidly at first, yet have stopped spreading completely as soon as testing
> began.

The mystery in these numbers disappears once you take into account that
homosexual men average +400 sex partners a lifetime and that the reason
the numbers stabilized is because most ppl with AIDS in the US are gay
men and their group reached a saturation point.
Russ - 22 Apr 2006 21:57 GMT
Yes doesn't make a lot of sense...there has to be a different way of looking
at this...the facts don;t support the theory

Russell

>> The epidemiology of HIV and AIDS is puzzling and unclear as well. In
>> spite of
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
> the numbers stabilized is because most ppl with AIDS in the US are gay
> men and their group reached a saturation point.