Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / AIDS / February 2006
HIV: racist
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wilyretrovirus - 31 Jan 2006 17:51 GMT I thought I'd share something interesting that Mr. Christopher from AME found at AIDSMAP.
In an article titled, 'More should be done to reduce burden of HIV on Africans living in the UK, says Health Protection Agency' on AIDSMAP.com
"In 2004, there were 3136 newly-diagnosed HIV infections in heterosexual men and women born in sub-Saharan Africa, accounting for more than 90% of all heterosexually-acquired HIV in the UK."
So, it's interesting in a couple of ways, for sure.
First, if we do the math, we come up with a paltry 3484 total for all heterosexually-acquired HIV in the UK. I suppose the "gay" or "MSM" figures must be more bulky to make up for what looks like a non-epidemic in the UK.
Well, it looks like those Africans really know how to get it on! Being that it takes an average of 1000 unprotected contacts to transmit "HIV" heterosexually, those folks from the dark continent must be outdoing the proverbial bunnies.
So what's the verdict? UK heterosexuals are chaste or always use condoms? Africans just can't get enough? Or there's simply no heterosexual epidemic in the UK?
Chris Noble - 01 Feb 2006 05:54 GMT > I thought I'd share something interesting that Mr. Christopher from AME > found at AIDSMAP. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Africans just can't get enough? Or there's simply no heterosexual > epidemic in the UK? Thank's for sharing.
Is Gonorrhoea racist?
http://www.hpa.org.uk/infections/topics_az/hiv_and_sti/populationsatrisk/groups/ ethnicminorities.htm
"Diagnoses of STIs continue to rise among the general population in the UK, particularly among young women. The findings of ad hoc research studies show that this increase has disproportionately affected the UK's black and ethnic minority populations. In the 2003 analysis of the Gonorrhoea Resistance to Antimicrobials Surveillance Programme (GRASP), black-Caribbean heterosexual men accounted for 44% (337/794) and women for 32% (155/484) of gonococcal isolates collected."
Other sexually transmitted diseases such as syphilis are also disproportionately prevalent in ethnic minorities and gay men.
Where are all the gonorrhoea and syphilis denialists?
Chris Noble
wilyretrovirus - 01 Feb 2006 19:43 GMT Chris, well, it looks like sexually-transmitted diseases seem to have an affinity for people with dark skin and gays.
Still, 90% of all heterosexually-acquired HIV cases in the UK sticks out like a sore thumb.
HIV's racist nature aside for the moment...what about the other questions? Where's the "heterosexual epidemic" in the UK?
Roughly 3500 cases of heterosexually-acquired HIV in the UK in 2004. Just how far do we need to redefine the word "epidemic" with such a tiny amount of cases?
Are all the white people in the UK chaste? Do they always use condoms? Or have the heterosexuals learned the gay art of "sero-sorting"?
Chris Noble - 03 Feb 2006 00:24 GMT > Chris, > well, it looks like sexually-transmitted diseases seem to have an affinity > for people with dark skin and gays. That explanation doesn't explain diseases like diabetes that also disproportionately affect racial minorities in a number of countries including the US and Australia. Social factors are the key. Address the social factors and better health will follow.
> Still, 90% of all heterosexually-acquired HIV cases in the UK sticks out > like a sore thumb. Almost all of these infections are believed to have occured in their country of origin.
> HIV's racist nature aside for the moment...what about the other questions? > Where's the "heterosexual epidemic" in the UK? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Are all the white people in the UK chaste? Do they always use condoms? > Or have the heterosexuals learned the gay art of "sero-sorting"? My guess is that most of the sorting is based on color. It is a reasonable assumption that majority of people choose sexual partners from their own "ethnic" group. Just like most gays choose other gays as partners. This is the one of the main reason why sexually transmitted diseases can form sub-epidemics in specific risk groups.
Also think about the concept of reproduction number
http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Basic_reproduction_number
There are a number of factors that influence the reproduction number for HIV.
One is the HIV viral load. Many studies have shown that the probability of HIV tranmission increases markedly with viral load. This is only logical. (Think about HSV. The risk of transmission varies greatly depending on the HSV viral load.) Many studies have also demonstrated that HIV viral load is higher in African populations.
Another is cofactors like other sexually transmitted diseases that make people more susceptible to HIV infection. Genital ulcers can increase the transmission risk. These are also more common in African populations.
Obviously the number of partners and frequency of intercourse also effect the reproduction number. There is nothing racist about this no matter how much people use inflammatory language like "f.cking like rabbits". Good luck to anyone that has more sex. Just be careful.
In populations (or subpopulations) where the reproduction number is greater than 1 the disease will increase exponentially. In populations where the reproduction number is less than 1 it will die out. The relationship between the reproduction number and prevalence is not linear!
Chris Noble
wilyretrovirus - 03 Feb 2006 01:31 GMT My guess is that most of the sorting is based on color. It is a reasonable assumption that majority of people choose sexual partners from their own "ethnic" group. Just like most gays choose other gays as partners. This is the one of the main reason why sexually transmitted diseases can form sub-epidemics in specific risk groups.
Also think about the concept of reproduction number
http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Basic_reproduction_number
There are a number of factors that influence the reproduction number for HIV.
One is the HIV viral load. Many studies have shown that the probability of HIV tranmission increases markedly with viral load. This is only logical. (Think about HSV. The risk of transmission varies greatly depending on the HSV viral load.) Many studies have also demonstrated that HIV viral load is higher in African populations.
Another is cofactors like other sexually transmitted diseases that make people more susceptible to HIV infection. Genital ulcers can increase the transmission risk. These are also more common in African populations.
Obviously the number of partners and frequency of intercourse also effect the reproduction number. There is nothing racist about this no matter how much people use inflammatory language like "f.cking like rabbits". Good luck to anyone that has more sex. Just be careful.
In populations (or subpopulations) where the reproduction number is greater than 1 the disease will increase exponentially. In populations where the reproduction number is less than 1 it will die out. The relationship between the reproduction number and prevalence is not linear!
Chris, it's soooo cute the way you're not talking to me, but to those who are reading this forum. You know I won't swallow your tripe. Yes, of course a make-believe virus has a greater chance of transmission if one has genital ulcers. Why not? As David said, "I'll believe anything".
So, you're saying that the 90% of those infected from sub-Saharan Africa probably did so before they entered the UK? OK. Without THAT small number of heterosexually-acquired HIV cases, we get a grand total of 348, non-sub-Saharan cases of heterosexually-acquired HIV in the UK for 2004. That is...if this article we're quoting is correct with it's original number of 3136 cases of heterosexually-acquired HIV from folks that came from sub-Saharan Africa, and which comprised 90% of all heterosexually-acquired HIV in all of the UK for 2004.
So, without this influx of people with HIV, the UK would have had only 348 cases of heterosexually-acquired HIV. Wow! Talk about an "epidemic". If that doesn't scream "epidemic", then nothing does. I haven't seen the "gay" or "MSM" statistics. Maybe all the homos made up for such a sad showing amongst the heterosexuals.
Chris Noble - 03 Feb 2006 01:46 GMT <snip>
> Chris, > it's soooo cute the way you're not talking to me, but to those who are > reading this forum. You know I won't swallow your tripe. That makes it even cuter that you addressed the question to me. It should make people wonder why you bother to ask questions to which you don't want an answer.
Does the word troll mean anything to you?
Chris Noble
la gripa colombiana - 03 Feb 2006 19:26 GMT wilyretrovirus wrote...
> My guess is that most of the sorting is based on color. It is a reasonable > assumption that majority of people choose sexual partners > from their own "ethnic" group. Just like most gays choose other gays as > partners. This is the one of the main reason why sexually > transmitted diseases can form sub-epidemics in specific risk groups. That may apply to heterosexuals, but among gays it is fashionable to select sex partners from other races. It is not mandatory, but it fits in nicely with the collective orthodoxy that all things are equal, including race and sexual orientation. Heterosexuals also cross the racial barrier, but when white heteros do it with blacks the primary motive is to shock their parents' sensibilities, not that they have any true affection for the negro they are doing it with. It's usually rebellious daughters who bring home the negro to in the hopes of giving her parents heart attacks.
GMCarter - 04 Feb 2006 11:08 GMT >wilyretrovirus wrote... >> My guess is that most of the sorting is based on color. It is a reasonable [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >That may apply to heterosexuals, but among gays it is fashionable to select >sex partners from other races. You're gay? Fashionable?
Brian Mailman - 04 Feb 2006 17:28 GMT >>That may apply to heterosexuals, but among gays it is fashionable to select >>sex partners from other races. > > You're gay? Fashionable? Sigh.... contemplate that dependent clause and think about the Spanish nym ("the Columbian flu").....plus the homophobic but 'knowing' phrasing. Yet another Diablo morph?
B/
Death - 04 Feb 2006 18:14 GMT "Brian Mailman" <bmailman@sfo.invalid> wrote in message
> Sigh.... contemplate that dependent clause and think about the Spanish > nym ("the Columbian flu").....plus the homophobic but 'knowing' > phrasing. Yet another Diablo morph? You've never seen me say gay. I refer to filthy disease riddled faggots as filthy disease riddled faggots.
I see your perverted mind can not accept the fact that there can be 2 or 3 like minded people.
It Must be one person and his socks, please God, LOL
GMCarter - 05 Feb 2006 08:32 GMT >"Brian Mailman" <bmailman@sfo.invalid> wrote in message >> > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >You've never seen me say gay. I refer to filthy disease riddled faggots >as filthy disease riddled faggots. Why, LOL, of COURSE it's another Diablo/Death sock.
Brian Mailman - 05 Feb 2006 18:22 GMT >>"Brian Mailman" <bmailman@sfo.invalid> wrote in message >>> > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Why, LOL, of COURSE it's another Diablo/Death sock. Well, unless someone has MPD, it's very difficult to assume another personality *consistently* for any length of time. There's always lnnguistic clues and writing styles that simply cannot be disguised over the long run.
B/
sock - 05 Feb 2006 16:51 GMT > "Brian Mailman" <bmailman@sfo.invalid> wrote in message > > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > It Must be one person and his socks, please God, LOL I agree with you 100%.
Death - 06 Feb 2006 02:52 GMT > > "Brian Mailman" <bmailman@sfo.invalid> wrote in message > > > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > I agree with you 100%. LOL it isn't like I really give a sh.t if Brian thinks you are me. I enjoy the fact he is so f.cking confused by simple things.
la gripa colombiana - 03 Feb 2006 17:02 GMT wilyretrovirus wrote...
> Chris, > well, it looks like sexually-transmitted diseases seem to have an affinity [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Are all the white people in the UK chaste? Do they always use condoms? > Or have the heterosexuals learned the gay art of "sero-sorting"? Very good response. And I might add that like in other Western nations, that of the "heterosexual" HIV cases, that many are likely women who are infected by their bisexual boyfriends who contracted it during MSM sex. Still no real heterosexual epidemic like the AIDS advocates warned of in the 1980s, for some reason the virus just does not seem to be very transmissable from female to male during ordinary vaginal sex. What is happening in Africa is a mystery - theories range from bizarre sexual practices to reused hypodermic needles by doctors - but it does not seem to apply to heterosexuals in the West.
And I'm starting to think HIV is genetically attuned to Africans. We now know that HIV originated in Africa, and not only does the African epidemic far surpass the West and the rest of the world, some of the earliest victims of HIV in the West were of African descent. Haitians were in the high-risk category from the beginning, and an old blood sample from around 1968 from a black American teenager tested positive, so the virus has been percolating through the African populations of various continents for quite some time. If we accept the advocates' claim that everyone is at equal risk, there should be no disparity between racial groups and certainly no reason for such a gross disparity among Africans.
wilyretrovirus - 03 Feb 2006 17:36 GMT "And I'm starting to think HIV is genetically attuned to Africans."
Fascinating! Can you tell us how "HIV" is "genetically-attuned" to people living on the continent of Africa? How does "HIV" know what continent it's on?
"And I might add that like in other Western nations,that of the "heterosexual" HIV cases, that many are likely women who are infected by their bisexual boyfriends who contracted it during MSM sex. Still no real heterosexual epidemic like the AIDS advocates warned of in the 1980s, for some reason the virus just does not seem to be very transmissable from female to male during ordinary vaginal sex."
Thank you, you're doing a good job at showing some of the dissident criticisms of the HIV=AIDS hypothesis.
"What is happening in Africa is a mystery - theories range from bizarre sexual practices to reused hypodermic needles by doctors - but it does not seem to apply to heterosexuals in the West."
Thank you. More of the same.
Ren - 05 Feb 2006 04:37 GMT wilyretrovirus wrote...
> "And I'm starting to think HIV is genetically attuned to Africans." > > Fascinating! Can you tell us how "HIV" is "genetically-attuned" to people > living on the continent of Africa? How does "HIV" know what continent > it's on? Now this will probably sound racist but I'm not trying to be. Imagine the SIV virus and how it was attuned to non-human primates like monkeys. At some point it leapt from monkey to human; for countless exposures over the centuries it only crossed the species barrier a number of times. Not to say that Africans are monkeys, but when a non-human virus infects humans it is because there is some genetic similarity - some particular protein or sugar receptor on cells that allows the alien virus to attach and infect the new host species. So at some point an SIV virus mutates just right to infect a human, and the human's cell receptors the virus latches onto might vary according to regional ethnic differences, therefore while a formerly non-human virus may infect humans of all ethnicities, some ethnic groups may have a slight genetic variation that makes the virus prefer them over another. Conversely, a genetic mutatation among white caucasians has been found that confers resistance to HIV; people with one copy of the mutant gene have partial resistance while people with two copies seem to have total resistance. Oh, and of course the classic example of ethnic disease susceptibility (something the PC left loves to use) is smallpox, in which the evil Europeans who were resistant to smallpox (generations of exposure left it an unpleasant but usually survivable disease) on the poor innocent Indians who had no natural immunity.
I should mention I watched "The Origin of AIDS" on Sundance yesterday and it described the apparent polio connection. Evidence suggest that it is possible that some batches of polio vaccine in the 1950s were contaminated during production which involved incubating the polio virus in monkey kidney cells. I'm always skeptical, but they did make a good case, especially with that graph that charted locations of vaccine stations and locations of initial recognized AIDS outbreaks, they lined up very well.
And what may seem to be a tendency for Africans to be extra-prone to HIV, well remember that France jumped into the colony game late, so while England, Spain, and even Portugal and Holland got some nice territory, France was stuck with Africa. To this day France maintains some connection to its former colonies, and coincidentally they are all severe hotbeds of AIDS. Even Haiti was a former French colony and of course was among the initial outbreak of AIDS in the early-1980s.
And it could be both, not only are people of African descent more prone to HIV infection (as evidenced by the severe heterosexual epidemic not observed in the West), the fact that most African countries were part of the French polio vaccination program means that the continent was infected extensively and rapidly. But even in the USA with little connection at all to France and Africa, HIV is most prevalent among blacks. AFAIK, everyone in the USA received the same type of polio vaccine, so something else must account for the high African infection rate.
> "And I might add that like in other Western nations,that of the > "heterosexual" HIV cases, that many are likely women who are infected by [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Thank you. More of the same. Huh? I said HIV doesn't seem very transmissable from female to male. But any male or female who contracts the HIV virus will come down with AIDS. That the virus is easier to transmit in some ways than others does not change the fact that it is 100% fatal when it is successfully transmitted.
Perhaps you're a fan of the environmental hypothesis, that the illusion of person-to-person transmission is caused by some unknown toxin that for some reason no one except homosexual men and people of African descent come into contact with. I suppose the vector trace showing 100 men catching HIV after patronizing the glory hole at the Crisco Disco is not due to the HIV+ dude giving bl.wj.bs, but rather some toxin in the bathroom stall - perhaps the toilet boil cleaner or maybe even the dioxin in the disposable paper seat covers.
Alex - 03 Feb 2006 15:38 GMT > I thought I'd share something interesting that Mr. Christopher from AME > found at AIDSMAP. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > heterosexually, those folks from the dark continent must be outdoing the > proverbial bunnies. And what is more, all of those are _visitors from Africa_, and does not include Africans who were born in the UK or lived there all their lives, Caribbeans, etc.
Maybe it is the environment?
Alex
la gripa colombiana - 03 Feb 2006 17:16 GMT >>I thought I'd share something interesting that Mr. Christopher from AME >>found at AIDSMAP. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >>men and women born in sub-Saharan Africa, accounting for more than 90% of >>all heterosexually-acquired HIV in the UK." I forgot to reply to this in my other post. Of all heterosexual HIV cases in the UK, almost all are among people born in Africa. Since HIV rarely has an incubation time of longer than 10 years, and the HIV test has been around for just over 20 years, why weren't immigrants to the UK tested before being allowed into the country? I'll just bet there is no test today, immigrants from countries with over 50% infection rates are allowed into the UK with absolutely no medical examinations at all.
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