Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / AIDS / December 2005
Liver related disease/death rate
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GMCarter - 29 Nov 2005 19:51 GMT The abstract below underscores that liver related deaths are indeed an important contributor to AIDS-related mortality.
There is no question in my mind that helping protect the liver can be an important component of HIV care. Can agents like NAC or alpha lipoic acid contribute to this? As well as treatment of chronic infections like Hepatitis B and C.
The abstract ALSO underscores that while LRD is an important consideration, it only explains a fraction of AIDS-related deaths.
In addition, it further underscores the ongoing need ever better, more potent and less toxic antiviral medications.
George M. Carter
*** Mocroft A, Soriano V, Rockstroh J, Reiss P, Kirk O, de Wit S, Gatell J, Clotet B, Phillips AN, Lundgren JD; for the EuroSIDA Study Group. Is there evidence for an increase in the death rate from liver-related disease in patients with HIV? AIDS. 2005 Dec 2;19(18):2117-2125.
From the aRoyal Free Centre for HIV Medicine and Dept Primary Care and Population Sciences, Royal Free and University College Medical School, London, UK bHospital Carlos III, Madrid, Spain cUniversitats Klinik, Bonn, Germany dAcademisch Medisch Centrum bij de Universiteit van Amsterdam, Amsterdam, The Netherlands eCopenhagen HIV Program, Hvidovre Hospital, Hvidovre, Denmark fSaint-Pierre Hospital, Brussels, Belgium gHospital Clinic i Provincial, Barcelona hHospital Germans Trias i Pujol, Badalona, Spain. *See Appendix.
BACKGROUND:: Increases in deaths due to liver-related disease (LRD) among HIV-infected individuals have been reported although the influence of combination antiretroviral therapy (cART) on LRD is controversial. AIMS:: To determine changes over time in the death rate from LRD and if longer exposure to cART was associated with an increased death rate from LRD in 10 937 patients from EuroSIDA, an observational longitudinal cohort study. RESULTS:: A total of 184 (1.7%) died from LRD during 52 236 person-years of follow-up (PYFU). The death rate from LRD declined from 6.9 per 1000 PYFU before 1995 [95% confidence interval (CI), 3.9-9.9] to 2.6 at/after 2004 (95% CI, 1.6-4.0). When the current CD4 cell count and other factors were taken into account, there was a 13% increase in the death rate from LRD per year (95% CI, 5-20%, P = 0.0008). In patients who had started cART, there was a 12% increase in the death rate from LRD per additional year exposure to cART (95% CI, 4-20%, P = 0.022) after adjustment for current CD4 cell count and other factors. CONCLUSIONS:: Death rates from LRD appeared to decrease across Europe. However after adjustment for the current CD4 cell count, and therefore increases in CD4 cell counts in patients taking cART, there was a significant increase over time in death rates from LRD. In patients with similar CD4 cell counts, longer exposure to cART was associated with an increased death rate from LRD. This may be due to direct liver toxicity of antiretrovirals, progression of liver disease due to hepatitis B virus or hepatitis C virus over time as patients survive longer, or some other factor.
Death - 30 Nov 2005 01:05 GMT "GMCarter" <fiar@verizon.net> wrote in message
> The abstract below underscores that liver related deaths are indeed an > important contributor to AIDS-related mortality. Lets not leave out these faggot goodies:
Bacterial Infections
Bacterial Diarrhea (Salmonellosis, Campylobacteriosis, Shigellosis) Bacterial Pneumonia Mycobacterium Avium Complex (MAC) Mycobacterium Kansasii Syphilis & Neurosyphilis Tuberculosis (TB) Malignancies (Cancers) Anal Dysplasia/Cancer Cervical Dysplasia/Cancer Kaposi's Sarcoma (KS) Lymphomas
Viral Infections
Cytomegalovirus (CMV) Hepatitis C Herpes Simplex Virus (oral & genital herpes) Herpes Zoster Virus (shingles) Human Papiloma Virus (HPV, genital warts, anal/cervical dysplasia/cancer) Molluscum Contagiosum Oral Hairy Leukoplakia (OHL) Progressive Multifocal Leukoencephalopathy (PML)
Fungal Infections
Aspergillosis Candidiasis (thrush, yeast infection) Coccidioidomycosis Cryptococcal Meningitis Histoplasmosis
Protozoal Infections
Cryptosporidiosis Isosporiasis Microsporidiosis Pneumocystis Pneumonia (PCP) Toxoplasmosis
Neurological Conditions
AIDS Dementia Complex (ADC) Peripheral Neuropathy
Other Conditions and Complications
Aphthous Ulcers (Canker Sores) Thrombocytopenia (low platelets)
and my favorite
Wasting Syndrome, melting like an ice cube on a sidewalk in July.
Well you did say related diseases, LOL
GMCarter - 30 Nov 2005 12:15 GMT >"GMCarter" <fiar@verizon.net> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Bacterial Infections I see. Bacterial infections do not affect heterosexuals. Fascinating.
Must be a whole heck of a lot of us same gender loving folks!
Huh.
Death - 30 Nov 2005 17:05 GMT "GMCarter" <fiar@verizon.net> wrote in message
> "Death" <Death@yourdoor.net> > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Must be a whole heck of a lot of us same gender loving folks! Indeed, the free clinic is full of them.
Susie, age 9 - 30 Nov 2005 20:44 GMT > The abstract below underscores that liver related deaths are indeed an > important contributor to AIDS-related mortality.
> BACKGROUND:: Increases in deaths due to liver-related disease (LRD) > among HIV-infected individuals have been reported although the > influence of combination antiretroviral therapy (cART) Finally, an admission that FAART (FA Anti-Retroviral Therapy) is good for something as a helpful aid in ending the torment of the infected...
Thanks, George.
susie
GMCarter - 30 Nov 2005 22:45 GMT >> The abstract below underscores that liver related deaths are indeed an >> important contributor to AIDS-related mortality. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Finally, an admission that FAART (FA Anti-Retroviral Therapy) is good >for something as a helpful aid in ending the torment of the infected... So you support killing people with AIDS? Wow. Pretty despicable, there Susie-frodlet.
Of course, the article doesn't say that. Indeed, here's another article about what happens to folks with HIV who maintain higher CD4 counts.
ARV toxicities can be lethal. Untreated HIV infection tends to be more lethal. Risk and benefit.
Sorry the tables don't come through here, but one can go to the NATAP website.
George M. Carter
** NATAP http://natap.org/ _______________________________________________ Why people with HIV die (or don't) today
Written for NATAP A Report from the 10th European AIDS Conference (EACS), November 17-20, 2005, Dublin; extracted from 3rd EACS Report. Mark Mascolini
Two big cohort studies yielded two surprises about mortality among people taking potent antiretrovirals for 5 years or more:
o CASCADE cohort researchers reported that-contrary to results of other studies-opportunistic infections remain the leading cause of death among people with HIV [7]. o APROCO and Aquitaine cohort collaborators found that people who attain and maintain a CD4 count above 500 cells/µL live as long as people without HIV [8].
Soaking up data from 22 cohorts of people with known HIV seroconversion dates, the CASCADE crew set out to compare causes of death in the pre-HAART era with causes since potent regimens gained wide use in developed countries. Of the 7680 cohort members included, 1962 died, 504 of them from unknown causes.
Ronald Geskus from the Health Service of Amsterdam reported that rates of progression to almost all causes of death dropped-as one would expect-since strong triple therapies arrived. After about 15 years of follow-up in both the pre-HAART and the HAART groups, opportunistic infections proved the most common killer in both eras. But cumulative incidence of death from opportunistic infection during the days of HAART was only about 25% the incidence in pre-HAART years.
After opportunistic infection the most frequent relative causes of death changed greatly when muscular regimens gained sway (Table):
Leading causes of death in the CASCADE cohort [table not uploadable]
The biggest shifts in the HAART era involved a hefty relative jump in intentional and unintentional death (which are probably nice ways to say suicide and murder), a higher relative rate of death from liver failure, and a higher relative rate of death from heart disease or diabetes.
Geskus and colleagues reported that the greater relative frequency of intentional and unintentional death in the HAART epoch reflects a significant jump in such deaths among injecting drug users. They call the relative surge in liver-related deaths a nonsignificant trend.
Together the APROCO and Aquitaine cohorts embrace 1743 men and 536 women who began a PI regimen from 1997 through 1999 and logged 5 years of follow-up. Charlotte Lewden from INSERM Unit 593 in Bordeaux reported that the combined group had a median 4.4-year duration of HIV infection before treatment, a median pretreatment CD4 count of 270 cells/µL, and a median pretreatment viral load of 4.5 log copies/mL. Lewden and colleagues documented HCV coinfection in 27% of these people, and 21% had AIDS when they started their PI.
Death rates per 100 person-years skidded from 11.3 in 1996 to 5.1 in 1997, 3.5 in 1998, 1.8 in 1999, and 1.9 in 2000. After that, though, mortality inched back up to 3.8 per 100 person-years in 2003. Lewden did not parse this uptick.
The French team figured a standardized mortality ratio as observed deaths divided by expected deaths-stratified by age and gender-with 1999 French death rates as the point of reference. The overall standardized mortality ratio showed a 7.8 times higher death risk in the HIV cohorts than in the general population and even higher risks for injecting drug users (18.6 times), women (14.1 times), and people with HCV coinfection (13.6 times) (Table).
But people with at least two recorded CD4 counts above 500 cells/µL, no recorded count under 500 cells/µL, and no viral load at or above 100,000 copies/mL had a standardized mortality ratio of 1.1 compared with the general population. In other words, the difference between their death rate and that of the general population-if there is a difference-must be negligible.
Mortality rate in 2279 French cohort members: 1/1997 to 6/2003 [table not uploadable]
*See text for definition.
Lewden and coworkers argued that their findings mean HIV infection âmight no longer be considered as an obstacle to obtain insurance contracts and loansâ? if a person reaches and keeps a CD4 count above 500 cells/µL.
References
7. Geskus R, Geskus R, Porter K, et al. Has effective therapy altered the spectrum of cause-specific mortality following HIV seroconversion? 10th European AIDS Conference. November 17-20, 2005. Dublin. Abstract PE18.4/6. 8. Lewden C, APROCO-COPILOTE Study Group. Responses to antiretroviral treatment over 500 CD4/mm3 reach same mortality rates as general population: APROCO and Acquitaine cohorts, France. 10th European AIDS Conference. November 17-20, 2005. Dublin. Abstract PE18.4/8.
_______________________________________________ NATAP HIV mailing list -- HIV@natap.org
Susie, age 9 - 01 Dec 2005 16:40 GMT >>> The abstract below underscores that liver related deaths are indeed an >>> important contributor to AIDS-related mortality. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > So you support killing people with AIDS? Wow. Pretty despicable, Did I say that, George?
Or maybe this is your own guilt for promoting the death-thru-treatment fiasco that some such as yourself still call "treatment"?
> Of course, the article doesn't say that. Oh yes it does - too bad you can't read between the lines.
>Indeed, here's another > article about what happens to folks with HIV who maintain higher CD4 > counts. People using IL-2 can maintain high CD4 counts and still have opportunistic infections. CD4 counts aren't very useful measures of immune status.
But you already know that, don't you?
> ARV toxicities can be lethal. "Can be"?
>Untreated HIV infection tends to be more lethal. Risk and benefit. Where are your studies comparing untreated and treated?
Oh, that's right - you don't HAVE ANY!!!!
LOL!
Susie
GMCarter - 02 Dec 2005 12:29 GMT snip frod stuff...
>> ARV toxicities can be lethal. > >"Can be"? Yes. Can be as in the toxicities related to ARV can manifest, when they arise, in ways that are not lethal. Some people have little trouble with side effects.
They are not always lethal. Data indeed refute that notion.
>>Untreated HIV infection tends to be more lethal. Risk and benefit. > >Where are your studies comparing untreated and treated? > >Oh, that's right - you don't HAVE ANY!!!! Yes, there are studies of AZT vs. placebo from back in the 80s. These were subsequently supplanted with studies comparing new agents with a standard of care.
Otherwise, as ever, even if you could get an institution to try to conduct a study with a placebo arm, I doubt you could enroll it.
But you know all this.
George M. Carter
Susie, age 9 - 02 Dec 2005 17:12 GMT >>> ARV toxicities can be lethal. >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > they arise, in ways that are not lethal. Some people have little > trouble with side effects. Many people die from the direct effects (these are NOT "side-effects").
> They are not always lethal. Data indeed refute that notion. Actually, the Data has driven the dramatic changes in the Standard of Care, of which you are well aware.
>>>Untreated HIV infection tends to be more lethal. Risk and benefit. >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Yes, there are studies of AZT vs. placebo from back in the 80s. Wrong. Those studies deliberately HID the use of Bactrim in the AZT study group - those studies ONLY proved that Bactrim actually DID save lives (as PCP pneumonia was THE leading cause of death and thus you can guess what the treatment for PCP is, can't you, George?)
You know - you really ARE shameless in promoting your Pharma Lies.
love,
susie
GMCarter - 02 Dec 2005 19:21 GMT >>>> ARV toxicities can be lethal. >>> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Many people die from the direct effects (these are NOT >"side-effects"). Semanitcs games do not win the argument.
The direct effect of antiretroviral therapy is to reduce virus load.
That's the DESIRED effect. Anything that happens that is not desired is considered a side-effect. Definition of the term.
Granted, though, it's a semantic question of little concern to people whose lives are seriously affected by side effects--or worse, ended.
>> They are not always lethal. Data indeed refute that notion. > >Actually, the Data has driven the dramatic changes in the >Standard of Care, of which you are well aware. Yeah, sure.
>>>>Untreated HIV infection tends to be more lethal. Risk and benefit. >>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >cause of death and thus you can guess what the treatment for >PCP is, can't you, George?) Ah, PCP ain't the only thing that can kill someone with AIDS. Anyway, that's an interesting theory and sounds a bit like conspiracy theory aluminum hat time.
>You know - you really ARE shameless in promoting your Pharma Lies. That's because I don't promote lies, dear, or hysterical fears like you do. So I have nothing for which to be ashamed.
George M. Carter
Susie, age 9 - 03 Dec 2005 21:43 GMT >>>>> ARV toxicities can be lethal. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Semanitcs games do not win the argument. Semantics don't kill people - these drugs do.
> The direct effect of antiretroviral therapy is to reduce virus load. Antiviral therapy isn't a targeted therapy - it is NOT targeting merely virus. If you take these drugs and you have hepatitis, then there is massive viral replication - a viral bloom. So much for the "antiviral" effect!
> Anything that happens that is not desired is considered a side-effect. So death is considered a side-effect of the drugs - therefore the patient dies of therapy toxicities rather than the actual disease.
Looks good in the statistics.
>>>>>Untreated HIV infection tends to be more lethal. Risk and benefit. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Ah, PCP ain't the only thing that can kill someone with AIDS. In the mid-1980s the death rate from AIDS was dominated by PCP deaths. Once bactrim was found to treat the PCP epidemic, then people lived a bit longer until something less treatable got them.
> Anyway, that's an interesting theory and sounds a bit like > conspiracy theory Given the conspirators and their patent conflicts of interest, the facts stand on their own merit.
>>You know - you really ARE shameless in promoting your Pharma Lies. > > That's because I don't promote lies, dear, Well then, sweetie, I must apologize for overdrama.
> So I have nothing for which to be ashamed. As well it should be - you certainly are no Death...
susie
Gary Stein - 04 Dec 2005 03:34 GMT >>>>>> ARV toxicities can be lethal. >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > there is massive viral replication - a viral bloom. So much > for the "antiviral" effect! Were did you get this idea frod? There are huge numbers of HIV-Hep C coninfected people who are happly taking ARV and doing just fine.
Here is what the CDC guidline says about treating HIV-HCV coninfected people;
"Scenarios for Treating HCV/HIV Co-Infection. Differences in HCV therapy management in the presence of HIV co-infection include:
• Ribavirin should not be given with didanosine due to the potential for drug-drug interactions leading to pancreatitis and lactic acidosis [103];
• Some NRTIs and all NNRTIs and PIs are potentially hepatotoxic so that monitoring of serum transaminase levels is particularly important [264];
• Zidovudine combined with ribavirin is associated with higher rates of anemia suggesting this combination be avoided when possible;
• Growth factors to manage interferon-associated neutropenia and ribavirin-associated anemia may be required."
That same CDC guideline also states that Lamivudine,and Tenofovir (both HIV ARV medications) are effective in the treatment of HBV, Hepatitis B.
So again lets see some data backing up your claims about ARV causing a Hepatitis "viral bloom", though knowing you that won't happen any time soon.
Gary Stein
Susie, age 9 - 05 Dec 2005 05:18 GMT >>>>>>> ARV toxicities can be lethal. >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > Were did you get this idea? There are huge numbers of HIV-Hep C > coninfected people who are happly taking ARV and doing just fine. Proof?
> So again lets see some data backing up your claims about ARV causing a > Hepatitis "viral bloom", though knowing you that won't happen any time > soon. Gee, Gary - since you are the brainwashed pharma shill for these drugs, it should be NO problem for you to prove their safety for use in those with hepatitis, right?
susie
Gary Stein - 02 Dec 2005 19:34 GMT >>>> ARV toxicities can be lethal. >>> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > cause of death and thus you can guess what the treatment for > PCP is, can't you, George?) What evidence do you have that Bactrim was not used in both arms of the study (AZT and Placebo)? Please provide the references to the papers that show this so called "hiding" of the facts in any AZT study.
Gary Stein
Susie, age 9 - 03 Dec 2005 21:46 GMT > What evidence do you have that Bactrim was not used in both arms of the > study (AZT and Placebo)? Please provide the references to the papers that > show this so called "hiding" of the facts in any AZT study. Bactrim was ONLY used in the study group on AZT - and the use of bactrim was deliberately excluded from the study report, for obvious reasons: the authors were the same individuals who were listed on the patent.
All the references and documentation proving that was posted here long ago (and you were reading this newsgroup).
However, if you have evidence to the contrary, I would love to see it.
Good luck.
susie
Gary Stein - 04 Dec 2005 03:42 GMT >> What evidence do you have that Bactrim was not used in both arms of the >> study (AZT and Placebo)? Please provide the references to the papers that [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > However, if you have evidence to the contrary, I would love to see it. Your the one making the claim not me, and yes I was here when you were posting as frod yet I do not remember you ever making the above claim nor do I remember you posting any evidence to back it up.
You posted a great deal of misinformation about the Concord study and you were never able to understand that study just as you don't comprehend most HIV research data relating to ARV's.
Gary Stein
Susie, age 9 - 05 Dec 2005 05:22 GMT >>> What evidence do you have that Bactrim was not used in both arms of the >>> study (AZT and Placebo)? Please provide the references to the papers [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > posting as frod yet I do not remember you ever making the above claim nor > do I remember you posting any evidence to back it up. I am susie, not frod.
As to the Bactrim arm of the study, well, the evidence is self-evident: of the 19 people dead in the NON-AZT study arm, 18 died of PCP !!! In the AZT arm: zero PCP deaths. Of course, you will claim that AZT is preventing PCP, but we all know that is another of your many bald-face lies.
susie
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