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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / AIDS / October 2005

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Re: >By Eric Rofes >"Gay Men are healthy, happy, and life affirming."  All except for that unknown subset who are HIV positive and infecting and killing some part of that community.

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dsaklad@gnu.org - 17 Oct 2005 13:07 GMT
> By Eric Rofes
> http://whitecranejournal.com/66/art6605.asp
> "Gay Men are healthy, happy, and life affirming."

         All except for that unknown subset who are HIV positive
         and infecting and killing some part of that community.

         A collaborative blog. A collaborative wiki.
         The strategy of get tested together before you have sex
         http://NotB4WeKnow.EditThisPage.com
         http://www.seedwiki.com/wiki/not_b4_we_know
Roedy Green - 18 Oct 2005 01:07 GMT
>          All except for that unknown subset who are HIV positive
>          and infecting and killing some part of that community.

You are jumping to conclusions.  Not all HIV positive folk are
miserable. Not all HIV folk are infecting others. Have you not heard
of safer sex?  See http://mindprod.com/ggloss/safersex.html

But you have an agenda. You are trying to suppress your own gay
feelings and excuse yourself for studying gay porn by bashing gays.
You figure if you can make enough of a case for why gays are evil you
will manage to hold down your own feelings.

You have no idea how obvious you are to others.

Signature

Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.

David Kaye - 18 Oct 2005 09:00 GMT
> But you have an agenda. You are trying to suppress your own gay
> feelings and excuse yourself for studying gay porn by bashing gays.

Relax.  DSaklad is a bot that shows up here and across Usenet
periodically.
dsaklad@zurich.csail.mit.edu - 18 Oct 2005 16:01 GMT
> David Kaye wrote:
> Relax.  DSaklad is a bot that shows up here and across Usenet
> periodically.

         Now is the appropriate time to tense up because
         the strategy http://NotB4WeKnow.EditThisPage.com
         is generated by a bot on various places on usenet from
         time to time. You can tell that from its lack of
         sophistication and complexity because that's all bots
         can really do.

         It's equally possible that a person accusing me of
         being a bot is a bot taken to infinite regression.
John Higdon - 18 Oct 2005 19:13 GMT
> > David Kaye wrote:
> > Relax.  DSaklad is a bot that shows up here and across Usenet
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>           It's equally possible that a person accusing me of
>           being a bot is a bot taken to infinite regression.

Yep...a bot.

Signature

John Higdon     | Email Address Valid
+1 408 266 4400 |     Sana Zay, CA

dsaklad@zurich.csail.mit.edu - 18 Oct 2005 22:51 GMT
>John Higdon wrote:
> Yep...a bot.

         Oh yea, the old john higgins bot !
         We know him well on usenet !

         The sexual program likewise is so strong it can't be
         broken except with great difficulty or with
         institutional, social, cultural changes that are
         essentially pervasive or system wide.

         It took centuries to separate drinking water and
         sewage. So the aids epidemic will probably follow a
         similar course. But not to worry you'll either not get
         it and survive or get it and be dead. And all the
         decendents you might have had will not be born.
         And they won't care. It won't matter to them.

         Individuals couldn't stop mixing their drinking water
         and sewage so it was done on the county, state,
         national level with county, state, national standards
         for constructing drinking water and sewage
         systems. Likewise with the blood supply, a test is
         found and, boom, infections with the blood supply
         effectively go to zero.

         Here's a collaborative blog and a collaborative wiki
         about the strategy of let's get tested together
         before we have sex
         http://NotB4WeKnow.EditThisPage.com
         http://www.seedwiki.com/wiki/not_b4_we_know
dsaklad@zurich.csail.mit.edu - 18 Oct 2005 16:14 GMT
Here are references about the terms... bot, robotic control
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_bot
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bot
dsaklad@zurich.csail.mit.edu - 18 Oct 2005 15:55 GMT
.
   > By Eric Rofes
   > http://whitecranejournal.com/66/art6605.asp
   > "Gay Men are healthy, happy, and life affirming."

         All except for that unknown subset who are HIV positive
         and infecting and killing some part of our community.

>> Roedy Green wrote:
>> You are jumping to conclusions.  Not all HIV positive folk are
>> miserable.

         Never used the word... all
         You jumped to the conclusion that I meant all when
         I wrote only.
         Perhaps you need to work on your reading comprehension.

         Try again later after your reading comprehension
         course.

   > By Eric Rofes
   > http://whitecranejournal.com/66/art6605.asp
   > "Gay Men are healthy, happy, and life affirming."

         All except for that unknown subset who are HIV positive
         and infecting and killing some part of our community.
Roedy Green - 19 Oct 2005 05:29 GMT
>>> Roedy Green wrote:
>>> You are jumping to conclusions.  Not all HIV positive folk are
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>          I wrote only.
>          Perhaps you need to work on your reading comprehension.

You did say "All except for that unknown subset who are HIV positive
         and infecting and killing some part of that community."

You are saying that HIV people infect and kill.   That is much like
says black people infect and kill.  You did not say that SOME HIV
people do that. I am glad to see signed of your delusions abating.

It was clearly meant as a blanket slur to spread hatred and
disinformation.

You are a first class c.nt.

Signature

Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.

dsaklad@gnu.org - 19 Oct 2005 10:11 GMT
http://groups.google.com

>> You are saying that HIV people infect and kill.
   > By Eric Rofes
   > http://whitecranejournal.com/66/art6605.asp
   > "Gay Men are healthy, happy, and life affirming."
         All except for that unknown subset who are HIV positive
         and infecting and killing some part of our community.

         With the quote take a look at the word... except
   > By Eric Rofes
   > http://whitecranejournal.com/66/art6605.asp
   > "Gay Men are healthy, happy, and life affirming."
         All except for that unknown subset who are HIV positive
         and infecting and killing some part of our community.

>> That is much like says black people infect and kill.

         With the quote take a look at the word... except
   > "Gay Men are healthy, happy, and life affirming."
         All except for that unknown subset who are HIV positive
         and infecting and killing some part of our community.

>> You did not say that SOME HIV people do that.

         With the quote take a look at the word... subset
         Twice after subset the word... and
   > "Gay Men are healthy, happy, and life affirming."
         All except for that unknown subset who are HIV positive
         and infecting and killing some part of our community.

         So, with the quote take a look at the words...
         except
         subset
         and
         and
   > "Gay Men are healthy, happy, and life affirming."
         All except for that unknown subset who are HIV positive
         and infecting and killing some part of our community.

>> I am glad to see signed of your delusions abating.
>> It was clearly meant as a blanket slur to spread hatred and
>> disinformation.
>> You are a first class c.nt.

         usually disparaging and obscene:
         woman an adult female person
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=cunt

         Etymology: Middle English cunte;
         akin to Middle Low German kunte
         1 usually obscene: the female pudenda;
           also: coitus with a woman
         2 usually disparaging and obscene:
           woman an adult female person
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=cunt

>> Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
>> http://mindprod.com
>> Again taking new Java programming contracts.

http://groups.google.com
dsaklad@gnu.org - 19 Oct 2005 18:08 GMT
That word c.nt is very disparaging of women.
Are you referring to all women?

You need to learn some bigger words.
Subset is only two letters bigger.
It's a very good word to know.

Okay, I'm wiling to change the word subset to the word some just
for you to make it easier for you to understand what I'm saying.
I would like to point out however that many educated people would
consider the words some and subset to be similar.
People who are better educated than yourself.

The wayback machine http://www.archive.org
and google http://groups.google.com
are available to search your earlier comments.

Canada has many continuing education life long learning programs
and I would be willing to help you find one.

And there are many remedial programs in Canada to help you do
that. I would be glad to help you find a program to help you do
that. I would be happy to help you find a GED program or the
Canadian equivalent.

There are 40,000 HIV infections that they know of.
In reality there has to be more maybe twice as many.
They don't know.
That's the problem.
So the number stays the same.

There are people who are susceptible to AIDS and dying so they
are not passing on new infections.
Some people do not know it.
Or do know it
and are passing on infections
and ultimately killing people.

New infections are coming about through sexual contact from
people who know at the very least they could be infected or know
they are infected.

You can't say they are unknowing about HIV and AIDS.
Ultimately we're talking about a better educated group of people
when we refer to a gay community, they just can't be uneducated
ignorant people.
Do you know people who have died from AIDS?
How many did not graduate from high school?
did not graduate from college?
had advanced degrees?
Isn't it possible that people you no longer have contact with
but had contact with have died or are dying?

A collaborative blog and a collaborative wiki about
the strategy of let's get tested together before we have sex
http://NotB4WeKnow.EditThisPage.com
http://www.seedwiki.com/wiki/not_b4_we_know
Manuel - 19 Oct 2005 20:57 GMT
dsaklad@gnu.org skribis:
> There are 40,000 HIV infections that they know of.
> In reality there has to be more maybe twice as many.
> They don't know.
> That's the problem.
> So the number stays the same.

That's why I support universal testing of all residents between the
ages of 12 and 72.

As is the case with flu, I have no doubt most carriers never have any
symptoms and carry on their lives unwittingly.

There must be a large proportion of the straight population in this
situation.

When they learn their status, they are likely to become less
contemptuous of queers.

Publication of the population data by queer/straight and +/- would
certainly have a drastic change in public opinion.

Manuel
Peter Panda - 19 Oct 2005 21:36 GMT
Manuel wrote...
> Publication of the population data by queer/straight and +/- would
> certainly have a drastic change in public opinion.

Except that the percentage of homosexuals in the population is unknown.
It is very political, with anti-homosexual religious groups claiming
it is less than 1% while pro-homosexual activist groups claiming it is
up to 50%.  Then there are bisexuals, even harder to define as a
percentage of the population.  The U.S. CDC doesn't even try to define
who is gay or bisexual, they lump them together as Men who have Sex
with other Men (MSM) and we've quibbled extensively about how many of
those are homosexual but in any case they account for 45% of all
U.S. residents with HIV.

The political angle in this case is the perception that homosexuals
suffer a disproportionately high rate of HIV infections.  But if they
really do make up 50% of the U.S. population, then 45% of HIV cases
being MSM is almost perfectly average, while if they make up 1% of
the population then they have a 45x higher rate of infection.  As a
result, any and all sexual survey studies intended to discover the
actual prevalence of homosexuals and bisexuals in the population are
met with heavy criticism, almost to the point of book burning.
dsaklad@zurich.csail.mit.edu - 19 Oct 2005 22:10 GMT
We do not have the rate of new infections of human immunodeficiency
virus because to calculate the rate of new infections we would have to
test a random sample of the general population.

If we could test a random sample of the general population, we could
find out about the people exposed to HIV who do not get infected,
useful in preventing infections for others.
Roedy Green - 22 Oct 2005 20:58 GMT
>We do not have the rate of new infections of human immunodeficiency
>virus because to calculate the rate of new infections we would have to
>test a random sample of the general population.

You do almost have that with the HIV blood donations screening.
Granted, you are measuring altruistic people, and you are filtering
out gays.
Signature

Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.

dsaklad@zurich.csail.mit.edu - 19 Oct 2005 22:18 GMT
What is just a disease got politicized so that we have not done what
worked in  controlling or eradicating diseases like tuberculosis.

A collaborative blog. A collaborative wiki.
The strategy of let's get tested together before we have sex
http://NotB4WeKnow.EditThisPage.com
http://www.seedwiki.com/wiki/not_b4_we_know
Peter Panda - 20 Oct 2005 04:01 GMT
dsaklad@zurich.csail.mit.edu wrote...
> What is just a disease got politicized so that we have not done what
> worked in  controlling or eradicating diseases like tuberculosis.

Actually I just read an article about TB in yesterday's newspaper.  It
was about a new treatment for TB and I started reading it with the bias
that the only reason there is any concern about it is that most people
who have it these days are those with HIV.  Sure enough, about halfway
through it mentioned that.  If it affected otherwise healthy people they
would be happy to let it reach epidemic proportions, but since AIDS
patients are at higher risk that is why they pay any attention to it at
all.

Similarly, I noticed recent hysteria over the first human cases of West
Nile virus in my area.  I think there were 2 or 3 cases, and the news
said that most people who contract the virus experience no symptoms, a
few experience mild flu-like symptoms and recover, and a shocking 1 in
1500 people actually DIE from it.  If you are wondering why they were
in such hysterics, AIDS patients are more likely to die and presumably
make up the majority of West Nile deaths.

And while TB and West Nile aren't good things, the fact that they kill
far more AIDS patients than ordinary healthy people should be grounds
for ENCOURAGING their spread rather than spending trillions of dollars
fighting them.  Especially TB, since the hotbed of TB is in Africa
which is also a hotbed of HIV, instead of treating TB in AIDS patients
they should simply let them die and save the government some money.  If
only governments spent as much preventing HIV as they do preventing
obscure diseases that primarily afflict HIV patients...

Oh, and my final thought is remembering that TB patients used to be
quarantined.  Notice that they're no longer quarantined?  Notice that
the end of quarantine roughly coincides with the appearance of HIV?
In other words, once TB became associated with HIV, it went from
being a quarantinable disease to being politically correct, as it is
politically impossible to quarantine TB victims because it means
quarantining HIV victims.

-------------------------------------------------------
"Arguing on the Internet is like running in the Special
Olympics.  Even if you win, you're still retarded."
-- Anonymous
-------------------------------------------------------
Brian Mailman - 20 Oct 2005 19:00 GMT
> Similarly, I noticed recent hysteria over the first human cases of West
> Nile virus in my area.  

And here Diablo was claiming not to use socks....

B/
Death - 20 Oct 2005 20:34 GMT
"Brian Mailman" <bmailman@sfo.invalid> wrote in message

> > Similarly, I noticed recent hysteria over the first human cases of West
> > Nile virus in my area.
>
> And here Diablo was claiming not to use socks....

As I have told you many time, that is not a sock but a regular poster
who changes names often, but he uses no sock. Neither do I.

Is your thinking so limited ?
Brian Mailman - 21 Oct 2005 20:18 GMT
> "Brian Mailman" <bmailman@sfo.invalid> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Is your thinking so limited ?

Apparently, so... Diablo.

B/
Peter Panda - 20 Oct 2005 22:19 GMT
Brian Mailman wrote..., On 10/20/2005 11:00:

>> Similarly, I noticed recent hysteria over the first human cases of West
>> Nile virus in my area.  
>
> And here Diablo was claiming not to use socks....

A sock is someone using multiple aliases simultaneously.  I have been Peter
Panda all week and no one else.  Clue: Cartman's tea party and the stuffed
animals in attendence.  You even accused Duly Appointed Bitchslapper of
being my sock simply because he agreed with me in that hilarious transexual
crack whore thread.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
"To represent our society at the end of this millennium, this is what
I would put into a time capsule: Frame 313 from the Zapruder film,
which would be a good clip of mankind’s generosity to share his
violence with the world in such a cinematic way.  Frame 313 is where
the brain matter lifts from Kennedy’s head and tries to fly away like
a little bird...
-- Marilyn Manson
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Roedy Green - 22 Oct 2005 20:59 GMT
>And while TB and West Nile aren't good things, the fact that they kill
>far more AIDS patients than ordinary healthy people should be grounds
>for ENCOURAGING their spread rather than spending trillions of dollars
>fighting them.

Do you feel the same way about any other pair of diseases?
Signature

Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.

Roedy Green - 22 Oct 2005 20:56 GMT
>Except that the percentage of homosexuals in the population is unknown.
>It is very political, with anti-homosexual religious groups claiming
>it is less than 1% while pro-homosexual activist groups claiming it is
>up to 50%.

I think you are lying, not just mistaken, lying. Please quote the
websites of some "pro-homosexual activist group" making that claim.

It depends on what you define by gay when you choose a figure.  The
odd thing is the religious right would consider someone gay caught
even having a gay fantasy every once in while.  To a gay man, than
definitely does not rate.
Signature

Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.

Peter Panda - 22 Oct 2005 21:55 GMT
Roedy Green wrote...

>>Except that the percentage of homosexuals in the population is unknown.
>>It is very political, with anti-homosexual religious groups claiming
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> even having a gay fantasy every once in while.  To a gay man, than
> definitely does not rate.

Of course I was exaggerating the exaggerated Kinsey figure of 10%, something
that was never replicated and I'm sure that somewhere along the way I
remember hearing suggestions that perhaps a third of the population had
tried it once.  Anyway, it worked to illustrate some activists might inflate
the numbers to reduce the importance of the 45% of HIV infections that are
MSM; 10% translates as 4.5x the average rate, 3% translates as 15x the average
rate, and of course 45% translates to exactly the average rate, therefore
incentive for activists to stretch the number of homosexuals in the general
population, and of course for political influence.  If Senator Bedfellow
believes 45% of his constituents are gay he will likely vote pro-gay.  And of
course if he thinks less than the 1% Pat Robertson says he will be likely to
oppose gay issues to pacify his majority anti-gay constituents.
Death - 20 Oct 2005 01:37 GMT
"Manuel" <branto1887@yahoo.ca> wrote in message

> There must be a large proportion of the straight population in this
> situation.

You forgot 2 words.

There "must" be a large proportion of
the straight population.......please God.........in this situation.

That is unless you wish to post something more than your opinion.
aids is a result of behavior so every one need not be tested.

It is not airborne like the flu. aids is butt-born
Manuel - 20 Oct 2005 21:24 GMT
Death skribis:
> "Manuel" <branto1887@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
> > There must be a large proportion of the straight population in this
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> aids is a result of behavior so every one need not be tested.
> It is not airborne like the flu. aids is butt-born

Aids is also to a large extent needle-borne, and this is why it has now
spread to straights in North America.  There is also a marginal
percentage of haemophiliacs, most of which are unfortunately already
dead.

Just remember that aids is now destroying Black Africa, and that is
essentially because of straights.  There, they believe that screwing a
virgin is safe and even will heal you.  What they don't know is that a
"virgin" prostitute is resewn every time into a renewed virgin...

Manuel

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