Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / AIDS / March 2005
HIV BEING A CO FACTOR (MAYBE) TO THIS WELL PLAYED OUT INSULT TO OUR INTELLIGENCE
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DakotaSkySurfer@gmail.com - 08 Mar 2005 06:57 GMT Hello and I would like to share only some personal experiences that I have had and am currently having. I certainly am no scientist and in the past, I have not subscribed to any particular dissident viewpoint concerning HIV and AIDS but this is no longer the case. Being an HIV+ person diagnosed early in 1987 and being on the full range of antiretovirals over the years beginning with AZT (which I could not tolerate), I began a series of early intervention projects when the drug DDI became available through the National Institutes of Health (NCI Phase I Study 1988). At that time, I had a T4 count of 166 with ratios of T4/T8 being around .12 to .14 at the beginning of the Phase I DDI Study. From about 1988 to 1993, I was on DDI alone and my results of theproject were outstanding. During the course of my program, my TCells were averaging from about 550 to almost 700. When the PI drugs came out my doctors leaning not on the results of my treatment but what researchers told them their "next step" and the "PC" thing to would be. Introduce protease inhibitors. During that period, I tried them all and they were so incredibly toxic to my system that I knew if I continued these, the cure would be much worse than the disease. I refused PI therapy and continued on NNRTI drugs perhaps two or a maximum of three at any given time. My counts were always near 500 and my VL was always undetectable during that period. In the late 1990s when so many patients were experiencing lipodistrophy and other drug related problems, I wanted to say I told you so but I just continued doing what I was doing. My attitude was and still is its my body so I will determine what I will and will not put into it. For the last two years I have more than not been off of all HIV medications. I have taken prolonged "holidays" from antiretrovirals and the highest that my viral load has gone is 30,000 which in my opinion is acceptable. My TCells also continue to be in the 400 range without any major drops. I would also like to add that during these periods, I had some very major losses in my life of deaths of friends, both parents, severe financial deterioration, the loss of an only pet, a move half way across the country as I could no longer stay on the left coast because of the surreal reality of mere survival requirements. In addition, during the transition from the West to the Midwest, I almost became homeless in the process. Perhaps that throws out the medical model which has been indoctrinated to us for years relating to avoiding stressors in our life. I have now been off all retrovirals for seven months continuously and have had my "labs" drawn each month and the results are as follows:
T4 12/04 376 VL 15,000 T4 01/05 494 VL 30,000 T4 02/05 465 VL 20,880
What I believe now is that perhaps we are dealing with two different issues in my particular case....at least on a medical level. One is that I started anti retroviral treatment early on and that by doing so, I was able to survive the disease all of these years because of this. When AIDS first showed up in the late 1970s (GRID) and early 1980s, the disease was very virulent and because of the lack of treatments available, many people continued dying from it for many reasons. During the early to mid 1980s, so many people just did not get tested for the virus once the "test" came out in the mid 1980s for no other reason than who would want to know they had a disease that would turn them into pariahs and would change their lives forever. When I was tested in early 1987, I was tested because of symptoms that were rather severe during what I believe was my own seroconversion. I was not taking illicit drugs nor did I. I was not a major partier nor did I really fit into any specific "high risk box" other than being a rather careful sexual being on the fence so to speak. During the years that I have been infected with the "virus" I have seen many things but what sticks out in my mind the most is that I have personally known several hundred or maybe thousands of people that have died from this DISEASE. I have personally known at least 5 men who have tested negative on the initial Elisa test who when further studies were done (Western Blot) their immune systems were not much different than mine other than they had much higher viral loads and less T4 cells than I did. They were very ill. What this tells me is that some individuals do not develop HIV antibodies because perhaps of genetics etc. Now we are seeing false positives and again all of the people who are actively ill who have no antibodies to the HIV virus. What does that say? To say the least, these findings are very disturbing and with the advent of proposed mandatory HIV testing in the United States for all men, women, and children.....how is that going to affect our culture and society using the myths that the medical community are using today to treat this DIS-EASE. I saw something that was written on this group the other day that perhaps simulates this very well.
HIV POSITIVE PATIENT + PNEUMONIA OR OTHER UNUSUAL CONDITIONS = AIDS PATIENT
HIV NEGATIVE PATIENT + PNEUMONIA OR OTHER UNUSUAL CONDITIONS = PATIENT WITH PNEUMONIA OR OTHER U CONDITION.
I recently ran across an alternative publication at www.breakfornews.com and there was quite an extensive interview with Christine Maggiore who runs a website called www.aliveandwell.org. It is definitely thought provoking reading. She give an audio interview that is playable on Windows Media and it is quite good.
Take from this what you want and perhaps if you have anything you would like to share with me feel free to write me at dakotaskysurfer@gmail.com and I would very much like to hear ALL VIEWS regarding what I have had to say here. Again, I am not a scientist or academic but just a person who has lived through this thing called AIDS. I would very much like to hear from people that perhaps have been thinking along the same lines or NOT. Thanks
Dakotaskysurfer
DakotaSkySurfer@gmail.com - 08 Mar 2005 07:19 GMT I apologize for not reading my original posting as well as I should have. One of the points that I wanted to make early on when I was discussing what in my opinon were two different issues relating to the medical model. The first was that because of early intervention during the most virulent period of the disease, I was able to heal inadvertantly by taking the early drugs the real cause of the disease.
The second point I wanted to make is that during the life of this disease over the last two decades, so many of the early opportunistic deseases such as Kaposi Sarcoma are virtually not seen any more in the AIDS population. I suppose what I am trying to say that perhaps during the course of the original disease which is ????? mutating, people being infected with HIV antibodies are possibly living now with nothing more than an innocuous virus after early treatment regimens. I have no answers and I do not have anything to offer other than my own personal experience. I do believe that this IS what happened to me by early intervention with antiretroviral drugs. Even if HIV is not the culprit, whatever it was that caused my immune system to start shutting down and getting OI illnesses, the drugs may have with the natural mutation of viruses become merely a non lethal nuisance that is nothing more than an innocuous pest in my system. Again, if there are any ideas that you would like to share about this you can respond directly to me or on the group. I certainly would like to hear other peoples thoughts about what I have said here.
Thanks,
Dakotaskysurfer
DakotaSkySurfer@gmail.com - 08 Mar 2005 09:17 GMT Please forgive my lack of newsgroup experience but again, I left out an important fact regarding my disease progression or better said, non-progression. My white cell ratio T4/T8 which as most of you know in a perfect world would be >1.0. Today, even after being off of HAART or any drug treatment for the majority of the last two years, my ratio is always >.70 with my last read at ., 81 As I stated in my earliest post early on when I started a Phase I drug study my white cell ratios were consistantly between .12 and .16. In my opinion, this in itself speaks to something happening to the virus between 1988 and 2005 even without any recent drug treatment. Please share you opinions with me as I am being "strongarmed" by my ID doctor into starting HAART including the use of newer Protease Inhibitors which have in the past made me very ill. I would like to be able to hand him this thread from other folks who are very well versed in HIV/AIDS and show him that as I and many others see it, he is living in the dark ages of AIDS and further treatment without decline is totally unnecessary.
DSS
Gary Stein - 08 Mar 2005 20:03 GMT Well first I advise everyone to avoid asking for medical advice over the internet. That said and with the caveat that what I have to say is only meant as information you can use when discussing your situation with a Medical Doctor rather then actual medical advice.
With the fact that your CD4 counts are rising and your viral load is not increasing (also noting that VL numbers like yours are almost within the standard deviation of the test depending on which assay is being used) you are fully reasonable in your resistance to going back on the meds. But to be sure you need to make sure that each of the sets of numbers you posted were from the same lab and the same test types.
If I was in your shoes I would feel comfortable staying off medication until either I had two CD4 declines in a row or one bellow 300. If your CD4 counts remain stable but viral load increases I believe there is a body of evidence from the treatment interruption studies that shows that patients can let there Viral loads go as high as 100,000 (some studies let Viral Load go even higher) as long as CD4 counts remain stable. So unless your Viral load goes to 100,000 or your CD4 counts start to drop it is perfectly reasonable to continue your treatment interruption.
Again I am not a doctor and it has been over a year since I actively followed the treatment interruption studies so my advice should be considered as highly suspect with out confirmation by a medical literature search on treatment interruption studies and consultation with an HIV specialist with experience in treatment interruption techniques.
Gary Stein
> Please forgive my lack of newsgroup experience but again, I left out an > important fact regarding my disease progression or better said, [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > DSS Gary Stein - 08 Mar 2005 19:49 GMT You might also want to read the following;
http://www2.niaid.nih.gov/Newsroom/Releases/blood.htm
Gary Stein
>I apologize for not reading my original posting as well as I should > have. One of the points that I wanted to make early on when I was [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Dakotaskysurfer Gary Stein - 08 Mar 2005 19:23 GMT (snip long personal history)
It is simply not possible to arrive at any general theories about HIV/AIDS based on your personal history. If in fact you began therapy during your sero-conversion period you had a much higher chance of your body gaining a greater immune response to HIV then those who begin treatment latter. There are several recent studies that seem to show that treatment started prior to sero-conversion can in fact prevent sero-conversion though there is still much debate about that.
Early treatment can also potentially prevent HIV from establishing the types of viral reservoirs that are seen it typical HIV/AIDS patients. Also there are some studies that show a few individuals who via the use of structured treatment interruptions can build up the bodies natural immune reaction to HIV and have successfully longer and longer periods of treatment interruption without any problems with Viral Loads or CD4 counts.
Your case could be explained in anyone or combination of the above events however your own experience tells you that HIV/AIDS is real, you've had friends die both before treatment was available and after so I find it utterly amazing that you would point to Christine Maggiore as a source of credible information on HIV/AIDS.
Christine has been all over the map about her own HIV status in some articles she claimed she was positive in others she claimed she was negative in yet others she claimed that the problem was the unreliable nature of HIV tests and that she had received a first false positive and only latter a confirmed positive test. Her arguments have been discredited so many times I won't bother with repeating them here but if you want some more information look at the following websites;
http://www.aids.org/atn/a-341-02.html
http://www.durbandeclaration.org/
http://ww2.aegis.org/pubs/atn/2000/atn35606.html
http://www.aegis.org/pubs/atn/2000/ATN34102.html
http://ww2.aegis.org/pubs/atn/2001/ATN36408.html
http://www.aegis.org/pubs/atn/2000/atn34210.html
http://www.aegis.org/pubs/atn/2000/ATN34002.html
http://www.aegis.org/topics/hiv_exist.html
http://www.hivnewsline.com/issues/Vol3Issue1/editorial.html
http://www.aegis.org/topics/mdelaney.html
http://ww2.aegis.org/pubs/gmhc/2000/GM140302.html
http://www.iapac.org/policy/dissentersrv007.html
http://ww2.aegis.org/pubs/beta/2000/
http://www.sciencemag.org/feature/data/cohen/cohen.shl
http://www.aegis.org/news/misc/2000/BG000201.html
http://ww2.aegis.org/topics/gcairns.html
http://www.niaid.nih.gov/newsroom/focuson/hiv00/default.htm
If the above combined with your own history is not sufficient to convince you of the bankruptcy of the denialists like Christine please feel free to contact me.
Gary Stein
P.S. Hey Paul I would love to see you take on each of the above links and explain in detail were they go wrong. Now your just claiming they are wrong because you say so isn't what I mean. I want you to dissect each articles statements and provide citations in the scientific literature that disputes or disproves those statements. Or at the least provide a list of the in your opinion misstatements from each article and an explanation on your part as to why that particular statement is wrong.
PaulKing - 21 Mar 2005 07:20 GMT THE GREAT HIV / AIDS HOAX
The multi-billion dollar AIDS/HIV fraud is based on two fabrications: that AIDS is a single disease and that it is caused by the HI virus or the "HIV virus" as some medical/media masterminds call it - perhaps they think the V in HIV stands for volcano.
In Japan "AIDS" is virtually unknown : yet, in random tests, 25% of people were found to be "HIV-positive". HIV-positive response means nothing of any relevance to health: it can be triggered by vaccination, malnutrition, M.S., measles, influenza, papilloma virus wart, Epstein Barr virus, leprosy, glandular fever, hepatitis, syphillis ... : over sixty different conditions.
Dr Robert E. Willner, inoculated himself with the blood of Pedro Tocino, a HIV-positive haemophiliac, on live Spanish television: an event which was not picked up the pharma-beholden British or US media.
The great HIV/AIDS lie was created by Robert Gallo who was found guilty of "scientific misconduct". "...instead of trying to prove his insane theories about AIDS to his peers...he went public. Then, with the help of Margaret Heckler, former head of Health and Human Services, who was under great political pressure to come up with an answer to AIDS, the infamous world press announcement of the discovery of the so-called AIDS virus came about.
This great fraud is now responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands... It was no accident that Gallo just happened to patent the test for HIV the day after the announcement...Gallo is now a multi-millionaire because of AIDS and his fraudulent AIDS test." Dr. Willner.
By grouping together 25-plus different diseases and other allied factors - pneumonia, herpes, candidiasis, salmonella, various cancers, infections, vaccine and antibiotic damage, amyl nitrate damage, malnutrition etc.and, particularly in Africa, TB, malaria, dysentery leprosy and "slim disease" - and calling the whole thing an "AIDS epidemic", a multi-billion dollar/pound "AIDS research and treatment" racket has been created.
The mythical "HIV-induced AIDS plague" in the Third World generates huge sums of cash from Western relief organisations whilst smokescreening the vaccine/drug boys, responsible for the carnage.
Every death of someone "HIV-positive" is recorded as an "AIDS death".
Periodically, the BBC/ITV/Press visit Africa/Yugoslavia/Russia etc to report on the "HIV/AIDS victims" and how they cannot afford the "life-saving AZT." Glaxo Wellcome's lethal drug, AZT, in combination with the diagnosis of HIV-positive and the prediction, stated or implied, that - "You will die of AIDS" is one of the great pieces of Medical Black Magic - Voodoo Medicine at its most impressive: people have committed suicide on the basis of the ludicrous diagnosis.
Pregnant women who are HIV-positive have been told to stop breast-feeding, dosed with AZT, have had abortions or have been sterilised. HIV-positive babies who become ill -from vaccination or whatever - are automatically diagnosed as "suffering from AIDS". "Considering that there is little scientific proof of the exact linkage of HIV and AIDS, is it ethical to prescribe AZT, a toxic chain terminator of DNA...to 150,000 Americans - among them pregnant women and newborn babies..? Rep.G Gutknecht US House of Representatives.
New Labour "Health" have now announced that all pregnant women in the UK will be "offered" a HIV test. Those who fall for the scam and who are diagnosed as "HIV positive" will be given the chance to have themselves and their unborn child permanently damaged by AZT etc. Pregnancy, itself, can cause a positive diagnosis.
AZT began as a "cancer drug" but was withdrawn for being too toxic: like being thrown out of the Gestapo for cruelty. Its effects include - cancer, hepatitis, dementia, seizures, anxiety, impotence, leukopaenia, , severe nausea, ataxia, etc. and the termination of DNA synthesis. i.e. AIDS/death by prescription. AZT eventually kills all those who continue to take it.
"WARNING : Retrovir (AZT)...has been associated with symptomatic myopathy, similar to that produced by Human Immunodeficiency Virus..." Glaxo Wellcome literature!
None of which stops the medical trade from pushing it on every trusting sap who is not ill to start with but is labelled with the "HIV-positive" nonsense and then destroyed by AZT; with "AIDS" getting the blame - and more billions pouring in for the drug boys, vivisectors, animal breeders and the rest. The latest stunt is to give a "cocktail" of drugs - including AZT, of course, and at £12,000 per head, per year - to all homosexual men who are "HIV-positive".
A particularly good scam is to haul into court someone "guilty of deliberately infecting the victim with the 'HIV-Virus which causes AIDS' " which then develops into "full-blown AIDS" - no mention of vaccine, antibiotic damage etc or full-blown AZT. Over 2000 - and rising, of the world's scientists are now disputing the HIV hoax, their efforts being continually suppressed by the AIDS establishment, the pharmaceutical/vivisection syndicate and their political and media lackeys
GMCarter - 21 Mar 2005 11:59 GMT >THE GREAT HIV / AIDS HOAX > >The multi-billion dollar AIDS/HIV fraud is based on two fabrications: that >AIDS is a single disease and that it is caused by the HI virus or the "HIV >virus" as some medical/media masterminds call it - perhaps they think the >V in HIV stands for volcano. Wow. Pretty bad drivel. Desparation on the part of the denialists who haven't died of AIDS?
Why not get David Pasquarelli to contribute to this article?
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