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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / AIDS / December 2004

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David Canzi -- non-mailable address - 09 Dec 2004 13:13 GMT
Here I quote things Paul says in some of his articles, and point out
contradictions and evasions.  (Paul King's words are indented.)

   The proportion of patients prescribed HAART increased from 19%
   during the first half of 1996 to 68% in the first half of 1999.
   [5]

So HAART usage reached 19% in the first half of 1996.

   as late as 1997 only 19% of 'AIDS' patients in America were
   on HAART.  [4]

   HAART was only in 19% use at the time of the decline showed by
   Mr. Canzi's distorted figures [2]

Now Paul applies the 19% figure from the first half of 1996 to 1997
without any justification.

   The proportion of patients receiving HAART changed significantly
   over the course of VATS.  In January 1996, only 1% of 83 active
   patients were taking HAART. This proportion increased to 52%
   on 1 January 1997, [3]

Based on this, HAART usage climbed from 19% to 52% in the second half
of 1996.  So HAART usage was high enough in 1996 to shoot down Paul's
arguments that HAART was not being used by enough people to account
for the observed decline in mortality in 1996 and 1997.

   HAART was not in wide spread use until at least 1998.  [1]

52% at the end of 1996, but not widespread until 1998.  Uh huh.

   "11% will make a great difference" [7]

Paul is apparently responding to an article in which I said that 19%
was enough to make a big difference in mortality, but he posted this
reply as a followup to an unrelated article, and magically changed the
percentage to 11%.  He repeated this new 11% figure in other articles:

   11% is 11%. End of story.  [6]

   Even if your assertion was true (it is not) the decline still
   happened when a mere 11% of Americans were first taking HAART.  [8]

It was Paul himself who previously said this:

   HAART was only in 19% use at the time of the decline showed by
   Mr. Canzi's distorted figures [2]

When 19% no longer served his purpose he changed it to 11% and acted as
if it had always been 11%.

Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia.

[1] <f224e47e9a5e995be5a8f6f2740fb913@localhost.talkabouthealthnetwork.com>
[2] <cd54dc6a357234df1c96378bb46a5628@localhost.talkabouthealthnetwork.com>
[3] <70a6c6625ae0b0517001994be92552f4@localhost.talkabouthealthnetwork.com>
[4] <648650028c0d3d788df1152c3e7d0bf9@localhost.talkabouthealthnetwork.com>
[5] <1cde1f37033db5d96c1c1ac8a6350754@localhost.talkabouthealthnetwork.com>
[6] <81fcdab2033a9503b1dde84c8720914f@localhost.talkabouthealthnetwork.com>
[7] <6e098f24e45a3f042138b5f10b21ba8f@localhost.talkabouthealthnetwork.com>
[8] <5d098c1b51bbe0e388d248f7ab27eda2@localhost.talkabouthealthnetwork.com>

Regrettably, Google has broken the ability I once had to make these
references clickable.

Signature

David Canzi

PaulKing - 09 Dec 2004 20:57 GMT
You are mixing figures from the United States with those from the UK. I
quoted from a great number of sources that differ by a few months in their
estimates of usage.

The slight differences make no difference to the point at hand.

The real decline happened in 1992.

The figures were distorted by the revised definition.

The average use in 1996 (when even the distorted CDC figures show a
decline) was in the region of 19% to 25%. These people had JUST STARTED
taking HAART, would not reflect in mortality statistics (if they died) and
would have no effect on CDC statistics.

'Infections' also dropped. Clearly this could not be the result of HAART.

You are grasping at straws to try to confuse the reader and escape the
clear fact you have been proved WRONG and a lier.

Sad!
Gary Stein - 14 Dec 2004 19:31 GMT
> You are mixing figures from the United States with those from the UK. I
> quoted from a great number of sources that differ by a few months in their
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> The real decline happened in 1992.

You have NEVER produced a single piece of evidence supporting the 1992 date,
even though you have repeatedly been asked to do so. Again did people
magically come back from the dead or what happened in order for your
statement to be true?

> The figures were distorted by the revised definition.

The mortality figures can not be " distorted by the revised definition" in
that they do NOT talk about percentages of deaths rather they count the
ACTUAL number of people who DIED.

> The average use in 1996 (when even the distorted CDC figures show a
> decline) was in the region of 19% to 25%. These people had JUST STARTED
> taking HAART, would not reflect in mortality statistics (if they died) and
> would have no effect on CDC statistics.

Well in my case in 1996 I was in the hospital days away from death when I
started HAART and the doctors tell me that was significant in my surviving.
I know of many others in the same situation (there were 50 other AIDS
patients in the AIDS ward at Georgetown University Hospital at the same time
I was then and they all received HAART as well.

So yes a 19% use of HAART could indeed count for a similar decrease in AIDS
deaths at that time. You probably are not aware that HAART treatment shows
it's greatest impact during the first few weeks of treatment but this is a
fact thus again showing that indeed the impact is highly likely to have
occurred.

> 'Infections' also dropped. Clearly this could not be the result of HAART.

Yes your correct up to a point the main reason for the drop in infections
was that it was a time of terror in the gay community due to the thousands
of deaths that had already occurred. Thus the prevention messages were being
taken very seriously, secondly it is a fact that those under successful
HAART therapy are not as infectious as is someone who is newly infected this
could also account for a very small decrease in new infections. (Note I have
not checked the CDC numbers to see if in fact infections dropped in 1996 as
you claim and being as most of what you claim is a lie I am not ceding that
this claim of yours is correct just giving you some reasons why it might be
plausible for such a decrease to have occurred).

> You are grasping at straws to try to confuse the reader and escape the
> clear fact you have been proved WRONG and a lier.

Yes that is indeed a description of you Paul glad to see that you finaly
recognize that simple fact.

Gary Stein
 
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