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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / AIDS / October 2004Diagnosis of AIDS with KS without a positive HIV test.
KS is still on the list of AIDS-defining conditions, in fact you can have a diagnosis of AIDS with KS without a positive HIV test. What was admitted around 1994 is that HIV was not the cause of KS. So they started claiming that Human Herpes Virus 8 (HHV8) was the cause. They even named it KSHV just so everyone would get the connection. The theory (I think) is that HIV causes immune suppression, allowing HHV8 to take hold, which causes KS. This doesn't explain why many many people have HHV8 without an elevated risk of KS (such as a substantial fraction of Egyptian school children). It doesn't explain HIV-negative people with KS. In fact, it doesn't explain very much at all. But if you rush through the explanation and go right on to the next topic, most people won't question the logic (this is the way the world works, in sound bites). - David Crowe Phd > KS is still on the list of AIDS-defining conditions, in fact you can have a > diagnosis of AIDS with KS without a positive HIV test. Maybe in certain populations: since KS is tens of thousands times more common in HIV+ people that HIV- people it's not a stupid idea, especially the aggressive KS seen in AIDS versus the benign KS seen in other situations. It's not the case in the US though, what with widespread serological testing. > What was admitted around 1994 is that HIV was not the cause of KS. So they > started claiming that Human Herpes Virus 8 (HHV8) was the cause. That sounds suspiciously like an accusation of changing the goalposts. It's actually called scientific progress. HHV8 is found in all samples of all types of KS, it contains at least 3 oncogenic genes. Seroconversion precedes KS. What else do you want? > They even named it KSHV just so everyone would get the connection. > > The theory (I think) is that HIV causes immune suppression, allowing HHV8 > to take hold, which causes KS. Since anti-rejection medication and old-age also lead to KS it's more a fact than a theory. > This doesn't explain why many many people have HHV8 without an elevated > risk of KS (such as a substantial fraction of Egyptian school children). Because they don't have immune-suppression....? > It doesn't explain HIV-negative people with KS. Because they have other forms of immune suppression...? HHV8 + immune suppression = KS What with HIV infection being a form of immune suppression an' all... > In fact, it doesn't explain very much at all. But if you rush through the > explanation and go right on to the next topic, most people won't question > the logic (this is the way the world works, in > sound bites). > > - David Crowe Phd What's this Paul, can't come up with your own ideas so you're cut-and-pasting everyone elses? I'll see your PhD and raise you an MA, MB and BChir :-P This kind of argument isn't even backed up by the most superficial look at the literature: it's pure armchair debate. From one of my BMJ postings: "Older analysis from the US states that the annual incidence of Kaposi's sarcoma in the United States was 0.02 to 0.06 per 100,000 population (source NIH, dated 1962 http://www.niaid.nih.gov/publications/hivaids/all.htm ). In the 1980s KS was the AIDS-defining illess in approxmiately 20-30% of people (30,000 per 100,000). " Cheers Bennett "PaulKing" <aimulti@aimultimedia.com> wrote in message... > KS is still on the list of AIDS-defining conditions, in fact you can have a > diagnosis of AIDS with KS without a positive HIV test. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > The theory (I think) is that HIV causes immune suppression, allowing HHV8 > to take hold, which causes KS. Yes, so far no one has been able to prove that HIV is the actual cause of anything, all it ever does is suppress the immune system so that other bacteria and viruses can invade and cause illness. Also, while HIV is generally accepted as inducing Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome (AIDS), it is not the ONLY cause. Other things, notably chemical agents, can suppress the immune system and cause AIDS. What you and your fellow loonies have been attempting to do is take the handful of such chemically- induced AIDS cases and argue that it means HIV does not cause AIDS, which is simply ridiculous. You and your cohorts have been arguing that the presence of HIV in 99.9% of AIDS cases is merely coincidence. > This doesn't explain why many many people have HHV8 without an elevated > risk of KS (such as a substantial fraction of Egyptian school children). [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > the logic (this is the way the world works, in > sound bites). Anything is possible, and I imagine that a small minority of people are especially susceptible to the virus that causes KS, even though their immune systems are otherwise normal and they are not infected with HIV. snip >Yes, so far no one has been able to prove that HIV is the actual cause of >anything, all it ever does is suppress the immune system so that other >bacteria and viruses can invade and cause illness. As if that isn't enough?? And yes, HIV DOES cause neurological disorders including neuropathy and dementia. It may also be the proximate causes of damage to lymph nodes and the digestive tract resulting, in the latter case, in micronutrient deficiencies. This is common for retroviral infections like EIAV, Visna-Maedi, CAEV, FIV, etc. George M. Carter >KS is still on the list of AIDS-defining conditions, in fact you can have a >diagnosis of AIDS with KS without a positive HIV test. > >What was admitted around 1994 is that HIV was not the cause of KS. LOL. Nonsense. No one EVER said HIV caused KS. Show me where anyone ever did. HIV screws the immune system up. People are more susceptible to all sorts of infections. KS is one. And, like other diseases like TB or cryptococcal meningitis, the outcome can be MUCH worse than say when KS appears in elderly men of Mediterranean or Africa descent. Do you practice at being such a complete a.shole? I guess so. George M. Carter Maybe read some of the NIH papers? They did one talking about Kaposi's sarcoma and linking HIV to AIDS. > On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 17:08:42 -0400, "PaulKing" > > LOL. Nonsense. No one EVER said HIV caused KS. Show me where anyone > ever did. >Maybe read some of the NIH papers? They did one talking about Kaposi's >sarcoma and linking >HIV to AIDS. Now you sound like Cheney. That's not what Paul said. YES there's a link between HIV/AIDS and KS. The link is an epidemiological one. KS has been one of the more horrific opportunistic infections. Being caused by a herpes family virus (HHV8), it seems the destruction HIV causes the immune system allows it to flourish and spread more rapidly. Even BEFORE we knew that KS was caused by HHV8 back in the 80s and 90s, people did NOT say HIV causes KS. HIV infection sets the stage. Do you grasp the distinction? George M. Carter Nope, I sound like myself. And no, we don't know that for sure. Do you grasp the truth? > Now you sound like Cheney. That's not what Paul said. YES there's a > link between HIV/AIDS and KS. The link is an epidemiological one. KS [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > George M. Carter >Nope, I sound like myself. > >And no, we don't know that for sure. > >Do you grasp the truth? one hand clapping Don't hurt yourself. >>Nope, I sound like myself. >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > one hand clapping |
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